Base Abandonment on the Final Play
 

I am a baseball coach who also officiates basketball. I witnessed the following play in a baseball playoff game and would like some expert analysis:

Tie game bases loaded 1 out in the 7th Inning (NFHS). BR attempts squeeze, gets bunt down and touches 1st base. R3 touches plate, but R2 and R3 fail to touch 2nd and 3rd respectively and join in a celebration on the IF. If there is no appeal by the defensive team, can R2 and R3 be declared out for abandonment, and if so, would the run score?

As described in OP, this is not abandonment.

8-4-1p Note: Any runner, after reaching first base, who leaves the baseline heading for the dugout or his defensive position believing that there is no further play, shall be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his effort to run the bases.

Since the runners were neither heading for the dugout nor a defensive position, they should not be called out for abandonment.

Abandonment is not a force out so the run scores but the defense could appeal to get the force outs and continue the game

Which is it?

I think Bob is saying that, even if an umpire judges abandonment, the run still scores. However, if the defense appeals the play, the appeals in this case are force outs, and the run would not score.

Yes.

And, in this case, the order of the appeals would make a big difference, wouldn't it?

R1 and R2 both miss 2nd and 3rd base, respectively.

If you first appeal R2 missing 3rd, then R1 missing 2nd, you'll get force outs for both, meaning the inning ends, no run scores, and we go to the 8th inning.

If you first appeal R1 missing 2nd, then R2 missing 3rd, you'll get R1 out on a force, but then you'll have removed the force from R2, which means that even though R2 will still be called out for missing 3rd, the run will still score and the game will be over.

Correct.

And let the s***storm begin when the you tell the coach that the run still counts because he appealed in the wrong order.

Huh? The runners essentially gave up their running responsibilities by joining in on a game-ending celebration. How is that not considered "abandoning his effort to run the bases"? One could argue they were on their way to the dugout, but stopped along the way to celebrate. They certainly weren't postponing their effort to run the bases.

Also, there is verbiage in the NFHS case book that supports abandonment calls without the need for the runner to go all the way to the dugout or defensive position:
- Under case play 8.4.2 Situation C, there's a sentence that reads, "Upon reaching base a runner abandons his effort when he leaves the baseline."
- Case play 8.4.2 Situation V involves a runner who thought he was out when he really wasn't, and the ruling says, "When R2 began leaving the field, he should be considered as having abandoned his effort to return or advance, and shall be declared out."

Both.

Abandonment is not an appeal at all ... it's called when it happens.
OTOH, this isn't really an appeal anyway is it... it's simply making a play on a forced runner who has not yet reached his base. Shame on defense for not doing so. They are not appealing a missed base... they are simply making a throw to a base for a force out, like we see them do all game long.

That case play applies after they reach whatever base they are heading to, and then leave (and wouldn't be a force out even if we bothered to call it as such.)

You sure about that? I thought the force was determined at the time the base is missed, not when the appeal is made.

R1, R3, one out. The batter singles, R3 scores, and R1 misses 2nd base on his way to 3rd. The B/R is thrown out trying for 2. The defense appeals R1's miss.

Does the run score?

I thought that's was correct, too, and even remembered a thread about it recently. Turns out it was on the softball board. Still would like clarification in regards to baseball, though.

The play in the OP has nothing at all to do with missed base appeals... it's simply a force play on a runner who has not achieved the base they were forced to ... and in the case where R1 is put out first, R2 no longer has to go to 3rd base at all, and can't be forced at 3rd (or appealed for that matter...)

The OP does not say the runners run past their bases and then join the celebration ... they simply don't run to their bases at all. Completely different from your missed base appeal situation.

So, R1 on second heads for third on a 4-3 ground out. He assumes there are three outs, so he heads towards his dugout at first, and he's between the plate and mound.

Conversely, R1 on second stays put as the batter strikes out. He assumes there are three outs, so he heads towards his dugout at first, and he's between first base and the mound.

Aren't both of these considered abandonment?

This play is also correct.

There's a difference between an out made during "unrelaxed action" and the order of appeals during "relaxed action."

Sure. But neither have anything to do with the case play you posted.

Perhaps I referenced the wrong case play. I used a 2012 version of the book. :o

And my question to Bob had nothing to do with the OP.

I don't know what you mean by "correct." My question was: Does the run score?

You are the one that made the comparison. You said, "are you sure about that", with "that" being his answer to a question related to the OP. Then you compared that with a missed base appeal situation.

I'm pointing out that your comparison is not applicable.

Nice... you asked that, he answered, then you deleted your question... when he deleted his answer, you ask again?

Nice.

the run does NOT score in your play.

I'm sure it was just a timing issue -- he deleted his first post before my response was posted.

Right - the appeal is a force because the runner was forced at the time the base was missed, despite the B/R having been put out before the appeal was made. In jTheUmp's example, the only way the order of appeals matters is if the force is (retroactively) removed by an appeal.

Is there an official interp. for this? I can't find it in the rule book or the MLBUM.

According to J/R the order of appeals does not matter if the runner was forced at the time the base was missed.

If a consecutive runner has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner, and he is forced at the moment he misses his advance base, an appeal of that base is always a force out. EG: bases loaded, one out. The batter triples. R1 missed second and the batter-runner missed first. First, the defense successfully appeals against the batter-runner, then R1. The appeal of the batter-runner does not negate the fact that R1 was forced when he missed the base. R1's appeal out (third out) is also a force out; R2 and R3's runs are negated.

I agree order of appeals doesn't matter.

As for the OP, is there no similar Fed ruling as OBR:

(b) When the winning run is scored in the last half-inning of a regulation game, or in the last half of an extra inning, as the result of a base on balls, hit batter or any other play with the bases full which forces the runner on third to advance, the umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base.

Which occurred in the OP.

According to 2008 BRD (Section 12), Fed has it in 2003 interp #4, and 2006 interps #12 and #13. I seem to recall it being more recent thatn that as well. I don't have time to look it up tonight.

For OBR it has "email from PBUC staff" (but the same ruling)

Thanks. 2011 BRD says the same thing.

rampro - What edition of J/R do you have? Mine is 2008, and the play you referenced is not is there (or I can't find it). I'm wondering if they pulled it.

Wendelstedt School manual as of 2010 says that order doesn't matter if force existed at time of miss. BRD reference is from a 2000 email. I think in FED the order does matter.

Dash,

My J/R is also 2008. On page 76 there is a Note in a separate box with the interpretation I stated.

Thanks. It was right in front of me the whole time and I missed it.

2012 Annual Interps, Situation 18:
In the bottom of the 8th inniing, the score is tied, with the bases loaded and two outs. B6 draws a walk and runs and touches first base. B1 (sic) trots in from third and touches home plate. B2, however, begins celebrating and never touches third base. RULING: All runners must legally touch the next base in advancing. If the defense LEGALLY APPEALS (my emphasis) while at least one umpire is still on the field of play, B2 is declared out for the third out. Since this out would be a "force" out, no runs would score and the game would continue into the ninth inning.

Which is different from Pro and NCAA, where the batter has to touch first and the runner from 3rd has to touch home. Doesn't matter what the other runners do if this is a game ending situation on a base on balls.

JJ

That's just plain silly. If FED wants to disallow the run, then fine. But don't try to talk me into believing that it's a "force" out.

Why would it not be a force out? R2 was forced to third by BR's walk and chose not to go there.

RU sure the order of appeals would matter in high school ball? In HS softball, the order of appeals does not matter, as both runners are considered forced to advance. This is true even if R1 missing second is appeals prior to the appeal for R2 missing third.

As a side note, I disagree with the NFHS's rules on that as it is inconsistent with the ruling for a force out.

You didn't expect FED to be the same, now, did you? ;)


If you cannot understand why it's a force out, then you have more problems than you think. I'd suggest you first go back and touch up on section 2.00 of the OBR book and study the definition of a force, which exists for an R2 with runners on first and second or bases loaded.

That's exactly the problem. In the non-Fedlandia baseball world, R2 is NOT forced to advance on a game-ending award. Plus, the award is "without liability of being put out."

I'd rather see FED put an exception in the "how a run scores" section than call this a "force" out.

Isn't it already in 9-1-1, Note 2?

The play (the OP) that I was referring to that you quoted me on was a batted ball --- playing at 2nd or 3rd on the runner who started on first or second base is simply playing on a runner before they reach the base they are forced to go to. It's not an appeal ... it's an everyday force play just like those we see 100 times a weekend.

Would this be a live ball appeal, or dead ball appeal?

Well, if it's FED, I think it could be either. But, I don't really remember the OP and I didn't go back and look.