Black and Blue

[sunfudblu]

The other day I got clobbered in the forearm by a foul-tip which almost brought tears to my eyes (Colt level). I use the hands-on-the-knees stance with my elbows locked. I was wondering how many of you use this stance and do you wear a forearm pad for protection?? I know that the catcher is the best protection but sometimes they could double as a jockey.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by sunfudblu
The other day I got clobbered in the forearm by a foul-tip which almost brought tears to my eyes (Colt level). I use the hands-on-the-knees stance with my elbows locked. I was wondering how many of you use this stance and do you wear a forearm pad for protection?? I know that the catcher is the best protection but sometimes they could double as a jockey.

I used to hold my arms the same way you did until my left forearm was almost broken by a catcher who set up outside and the pitch came down the middle. I stand with my arms at my side and I do wear a batter's forearm shield.

[edhern]

I use hands on knees with elbows softly locked to lock in. I maybe get hit in the arm once a year. I am not sure I would get hit less any other way, except hands behind the back, but how do you lock in that way.

Ed H

[Jim Porter]

I also use hands-on-knees double-wide, and I try to face the fleshy part of my arm outward so if it does get me it doesn't get bone.

I didn't used to turn the fleshy part out, and took a sharply fouled fastball from a former relief pitcher for the Boston Red Sox right to my elbow. I left the game and had it x-rayed. It sure looked broken. But it wasn't. I got lucky.

Had to give them the co-pay, though, and that sucked.

[LDUB]

Have you ever considered an outside chest protector? You can hide your arms behind it.

[bluezebra]

A friend of mine used the hands-on-knees stance, until he had his hand broken.

Bob

[Rich]

An outside chest protector? Today that's about as acceptable as wearing your hat backwards while working the plate and having your shin guards on over the outside of your pants.

I work hands-on-knees now, too (the Gerry Davis stance), and it gives me a superior, locked-in view of the plate and has helped solidify my timing and plate work. The trade-off is that you get hit in the arms every once in a while. Every once in a while when I get hit, a less-experienced partner tries to give me some sage wisdom by saying that getting hit is why they work the plate with their arms behind their back.

How many umpires at the professional (or top amateur) level work with their arms behind their back? None, because it's bad for 2 reasons -- (1) It may help keep your arms from getting hit, but I pity the umpire that takes one on the exposed elbow, and (2) Proper balance involves using the arms out in front of you. I've never seen an arms-behind-the-back umpire that looks completely balanced.

You're going to get hit. Your equipment is protecting the important parts. As far as the hand getting broken, that's a freak accident. You can get your hand broken using just about any good stance. Ever notice where scissors umpires put their hands?

Rich

[PatF]

Accepted and agreed for upper-level play, Rich. When I start working behind top-level or major league catchers, I will try that as well. As long as I'm working behind 16-yr-old and under catchers, I'm keeping my arms behind me. I haven't lost my balance yet and I don't feel that my strike zone has suffered because of it. If one of the networks decides to televise one of my games, I'll find some way to handle the shame and ridicule of everyone pointing and laughing at my sub-professional mechanics.

[Rich]

That's up to you, of course.

Every umpire has his own concept of what is important. When I see an umpire with his hands behind his back, I simply assume he is an untrained umpire that doesn't know any better. Then I wonder what else he doesn't know or do.

A lot of assignors feel the same way. Some don't. You have to know what is expected of you where you live and at the levels you work.

I work all levels, mostly HS varsity, small college, and adult baseball. Yet I would never imagine working differently even if the participants were 9-10 years old (which they were this weekend in a couple tournament games I worked). I expect to get hit, it's part of the game and part of the tradeoff for getting good, balanced positioning in the slot.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jul 29th, 2003 at 09:01 AM]

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've been clobbered a bunch here lately too! Several balls into the crotch of my lower/upper arm (the part of the arm in front of the elbow) and a couple to the mid radius (the bone on the thumb side of your forearm). The fleshy ones sting but the shots to the radius are excruciating and do make you wonder if something is broken.

The last half dozen games I've done I have taken to placing one arm, the exposed one, behind my back. The other arm, one behind the catcher, I leave on my knee/thigh. The method seems to work okay. As long as the pitcher moves along and doesn't spend 5-10 seconds in the set position my thigh muscles hold a good steady stance. Although, after getting beaned in both thighs they are a little tender also.

During American Legion district tournament this weekend... One shot an inch above the top of my shin guard inside of the left thigh. Two innings later, exact same spot. First one stung. Second time required a little dancing, cringing, and sucking in of my breath. Next day, solid shot to front of mid right thigh (three days later the bruise/tenderness is about 5-6 inches in diameter). Third day of the tournament - no shots to my body but it sure was tough couching. Even today it is painful to walk up and down stairs.

Shot to right thigh was through the catcher! How do those balls sneak their way through everything to hit the umpire so solidly? Behind the catcher is supposed to be a safe zone.

Renaissance Armour might be the answer

[sunfudblu]

Number one being balance, like Rich mentioned, is why I switched to the "Gerry Davis" style stance. I knew at some point I would get hit and after I did I couldn't get back to my usual stance for about 3 innings so I went back to my old stance (squatting).

Can you still buy those old balloon protectors, maybe on Ebay. No thanks to that. I remember using that thing when I first started and even then I used the squat stance with my forearms/elbows on my quads......kinda like when you relieve yourself in those porta-potties and you don't wanna touch the seat.

[Striker991]

I have a mild case of a genetic bone disorder that makes me a little more susceptible to broken bones than most people. Therefore, it is important that I protect myself as much as possible. No, I don't use an outside protector. However, when I drop into my stance at the pitch, I tuck my hands behind my knees. This puts the meat part of my arm facing outward so when I do get hit, it is in the muscle. It took me a while to find this, and it works rather well. It keeps my hands and fingers out of harm's way as well.

[Mike Follett]

Although I don't have a genetic bone disorder, I don't like getting hit needlessly, and that's exactly what some of you (Rich) are setting yourselves up for, and recommending as a good mechanic. If you think that's what you need to do to "look good, look like a pro...whatever", the by all means, knock yourself out.
I happen to work in the slot,using the box stance, where I tuck my hands behind my knees and pin my arms to my sides. In this position, very little of the arm is left exposed to a direct blow, and I'm certainly in a balanced position, in spite of your claims to the contrary.
You say if you saw someone using such a position, you'd "wonder what else they didn't know". I disagree with that viewpoint altogether. When I see a guy get whacked needlelssly, I just think to myself, how un-necessary it was. But I guess he can feel better knowing he "took it like a pro".
No thanks; I'm quite secure in my manhood and my umpiring prowess to continue doing what has worked well for me thru the years. The "pros" opinion notwithstanding.......I still manage to sleep well at night.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Every umpire has his own concept of what is important. When I see an umpire with his hands behind his back, I simply assume he is an untrained umpire that doesn't know any better. Then I wonder what else he doesn't know or do.

A lot of assignors feel the same way. Some don't. You have to know what is expected of you where you live and at the levels you work.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jul 29th, 2003 at 09:01 AM]

Rich:

I instantly know the level of any umpire around here who works with his hands behind his back. He works the lower levels of youth ball.

How do I know that? Because no one who uses that stance will ever move up in the association beyond that level.

Yes, proper mechanics and appearances are important. They set the initial tone for the game and as such they are an important part of game management.

We have two such umpires here and we assign them to work those games where their appearance and the perception they exude aren't issues....9-10 and 11-12 year olds.

There are ways of protecting oneself without projecting the image someone who came out of the stands to fill in.

[Mike Follett]

...but I still disagree, which is my right, with your opinion.
No, I don't work MLB, and yes, I work youth ball, and have done it for a long damn time. I'm a very good umpire, who also happens to project professionalism on the field, albeit for those players 18 and under. You use the term "youth ball" like there's something less important about calling at that level, than whatever level you happen to work for. Here's a newsflash for you pal; there's a lot more of us, than there are of you. Just because I happen to give my time to the youth of my community, who that game means more to than anyone, doesn't mean I'm any less of a pro at what I do, than you.
Not once have I heard anyone with any common sense, say, "Man, that guy behind the plate sucks because he doesn't have his hands hanging out in front of him like an ape".
If that's one of the keys that you use to judge a fellow umpire, it must suck to be you.