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-   -   NLCS blown base award (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/92690-nlcs-blown-base-award.html)

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 860612)

Do you have a tl;dr version of the novel above?

Yes, OBR 8.01(e).

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:56pm

Ok, Cliffs Notes Version
 
The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

maven Tue Oct 30, 2012 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860610)
The best I can tell, here’s the tally:

One Base Camp (11): Maven, UES, Welpe, Steven Tyler, Bob Jenkins, MD Longhorn, RPatrino, Rich, Mrumpiresir, DG, Jicecone. (Notice any big dogs?)

You omitted the 6 professional umpires working the game, whose call was the only one that mattered.

Eastshire Tue Oct 30, 2012 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860617)
The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 860631)
You omitted the 6 professional umpires working the game, whose call was the only one that mattered.

No, I addressed this in the section "Umpire Speculation." Please, keep it coming.

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 860632)
Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

Eastshire Tue Oct 30, 2012 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860634)
Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

Then rewatch the video :D

Seriously though, the turn to first starts at the shoulders while the pivot foot is in the air.

UES Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860610)
The best I can tell, here’s the tally:

One Base Camp (11): Maven, UES, Welpe, Steven Tyler, Bob Jenkins, MD Longhorn, RPatrino, Rich, Mrumpiresir, DG, Jicecone. (Notice any big dogs?)

Two Base Camp (7): Lapopez (me), RPumpire, ZM1283, Umpjim, Manny A, JohnnyG08, Dash_Ripock.

Unknown (1): Rich Ives

I only need to sway three people, and there are seven days left until the election!

--Paul

Lapopez/Paul,

This may sound like a "political" answer, however, I will say it anyways... the Cain move, TECHNICALLY, may be considered as a throw by an infielder (ie., step back off the rubber = two base award). With that said, his move was so unique and happened so fast that I myself did not pick it up in real time and since 6 other MLB guys on the field took a pass at it, then I will go with the masses. As I mentioned, given the same circumstances in which the play happened, I think you would be taking the sh!tty end of the stick if you award the runner 3B (even though you may have been technically correct to do so).

Balks in general, can be a slippery slope. There are times when you have to enforce them to the letter of the law, and there are times where you just go with the flow and let the game play out. This move, in my opinion, was one of those times that you give the runner 2B (what 99.9% of the people that were playing & watching expected) and just move on. Ofcourse, if you're that guy who wants to prove to the world that you're technically right...be my guest. Do me a favor though, save it for a game that I'm not working on your crew ;)

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:15pm

Dear UES,
 
If the play were on an OBR umpire test, how would you answer?

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860634)
Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 860646)
You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

So the "wild throw" (yes, that's the verbiage in 8.01(e)) took place prior to Cain landing his pivot foot behind the rubber?

Before you answer that, consider Rule 7.05(g) AR: "The term “when the wild throw was made” means when the throw actually left the player’s hand..."

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:35pm

With respect to UES's post above...
 
Does everyone in the one base camp agree with me "technically"? If you want to argue what is prudent "practically," lets start another thread. I'd like to debate the "technical" aspects in this thread, or at least wait until there is consensus on the "technical" before we go to the "practical." I do have opinions on the "practical" as well.

maven Tue Oct 30, 2012 03:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860633)
No, I addressed this in the section "Umpire Speculation." Please, keep it coming.

Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.

Lapopez Tue Oct 30, 2012 04:03pm

Funny, I said it was a jump turn too.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 860653)
Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

MD Longhorn Tue Oct 30, 2012 04:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapopez (Post 860654)
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Pot meet kettle.

If you think it was a jump turn, then why do you keep posting novels that it wasn't. (If you can't answer that in 4 sentences, I won't read it so don't bother.)


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