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-   -   Twins @ Tigers - interference call (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/92491-twins-tigers-interference-call.html)

jicecone Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 855932)
Just for educational purposes, if I was one of the other umpires in this scenario, what should I do?
a) absolutely nothing
b) absolutely nothing unless asked by U2
c) stroll over and kindly say "you know, he was on the bag so he's not out unless it's intentional".
d) other

A, B and, D if it means doing A.

JJ Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:21am

This is a rule interp, and is protestable. If I were one of the other umpires I would flat out volunteer information. You better get this one right or someone will have to arrange schedules to complete the game at a later date...

JJ

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jicecone (Post 855941)
A, B and, D if it means doing A.

I disagree. If he had ruled 2 outs, then as bad as that call might be, you're right - do nothing.

But he ruled 1 out - a result that is impossible regardless of his judgement. We have a RULES mistake here, and rules mistakes (when noted) MUST be fixed. So yes, we would definitely be huddling on this one - the appropriate rule would be stated, and U2 would, based on his own judgement of the play, announce the proper penalty.

Manny A Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 855921)
I wonder if they think the call was bad because it shouldn't have been interference in the first place or if they should have also called the batter out if it was interference? :confused:

Again, I still think that U2's "circle-around" mechanic that he gave after ruling the out was an indication that he felt R2 could have moved around to avoid hindering the fielder as much as possible, while still maintaining contact with the base.

What he did not see was R2 looking up for the ball or looking at the fielder to make a reasonable attempt at avoiding him. Instead, he saw R2 turn his back to the fielder, and that may have given him enough cause to judge intent.

That's my speculation.

jicecone Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 855961)
I disagree. If he had ruled 2 outs, then as bad as that call might be, you're right - do nothing.

But he ruled 1 out - a result that is impossible regardless of his judgement. We have a RULES mistake here, and rules mistakes (when noted) MUST be fixed. So yes, we would definitely be huddling on this one - the appropriate rule would be stated, and U2 would, based on his own judgement of the play, announce the proper penalty.

Maybe, if I was crew chief but from what I saw of the video he didn't ask for help and he didnt have to toss the coach either. Which is unusal for that coach. I think this is one of those times that even Ozzy would say, "We don't need no stinking conference".

Manny A Tue Sep 25, 2012 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 855961)
We have a RULES mistake here, and rules mistakes (when noted) MUST be fixed. So yes, we would definitely be huddling on this one - the appropriate rule would be stated, and U2 would, based on his own judgement of the play, announce the proper penalty.

What do you mean by "when noted"?

If you're the crew chief, and you know for a fact that one of your partners has blown a rule interpretation, are you saying you must do something even if that partner didn't ask for help?

I know that in certain amateur rule sets, umpires are required to take whatever action necessary to prevent a protest. But I didn't think the same requirement existed in pro ball. Per OBR 9.02(b), it seems to me that it is incumbent upon the offended manager to initiate the discussion through an appeal.

Or am I wrong?

MD Longhorn Tue Sep 25, 2012 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 856021)
What do you mean by "when noted"?

Well, obviously you can't point it out if you didn't catch it.

Quote:

If you're the crew chief, and you know for a fact that one of your partners has blown a rule interpretation, are you saying you must do something even if that partner didn't ask for help?
Absolutely.

Quote:

I know that in certain amateur rule sets, umpires are required to take whatever action necessary to prevent a protest. But I didn't think the same requirement existed in pro ball. Per OBR 9.02(b), it seems to me that it is incumbent upon the offended manager to initiate the discussion through an appeal.

Or am I wrong?
No, umpires should prevent protestable situations where possible. 9.02 doesn't prevent the umpires from fixing it on their own ... it describes what the manager should do if he has a protest.

bob jenkins Tue Sep 25, 2012 03:16pm

As a general guideline:

1) If it's pure judgment -- leave it alone

2) If it's judgment, but you have additional information (tag, when partner was looking at force, or a ball on the ground) -- use some signal (I just look at him) to let your partner know you have something

3) If it's a rule -- get together

Now, you might not know for sure -- if a fly ball is dropped, did your partner jusdge it to be accidental (item 1), forget that there was a runner on with less than two outs (item 2), or not know that it's a violation to intentionally drop it (item 3)? So, there's some reading of the situation involved -- I would usually invite (but not initiate) a discussion by using the "signal" method here.

johnnyg08 Tue Sep 25, 2012 05:52pm

Here's the mechanic:

1. Safe signal
2. "that's nothing, that's nothing"
3. play on.

Steven Tyler Wed Sep 26, 2012 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 856075)
Here's the mechanic:

1. Safe signal
2. "that's nothing, that's nothing"
3. play on.

The safe signal pretty sure denotes that nothing happened. "That's nothing" is never "something" that I've ever been taught, nor heard of in discussion.

bob jenkins Wed Sep 26, 2012 06:28pm

S.O.P

You should add it to your tool bag.

johnnyg08 Wed Sep 26, 2012 08:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 856217)
The safe signal pretty sure denotes that nothing happened. "That's nothing" is never "something" that I've ever been taught, nor heard of in discussion.

Something to consider.

SAump Wed Sep 26, 2012 08:32pm

That's nothing!
 
F6 simply misread a fly ball. F6 should have camped out under the ball, not drift back at the last second and cause a collision with the base runner. Ump got involved with the rule book when he had no business ruling on the play. F6 does not have a right to the base, or a right to pass directly over a base when the base is already occupied.

Play reminds me of the Orioles shortstop who bowled over the runner after a stolen base earlier this year. You just can't go knocking them off the bag for an out because you lost your balance/momentum during the play. Another bad call.

GA Umpire Wed Sep 26, 2012 09:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 855951)
This is a rule interp, and is protestable. If I were one of the other umpires I would flat out volunteer information. You better get this one right or someone will have to arrange schedules to complete the game at a later date...

JJ

Not unless someone utters the words "I protest". You have no idea what his ruling is and therefore, should not be getting involved. He may have ruled something that you do not know what the call was.

GA Umpire Wed Sep 26, 2012 09:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 855961)
I disagree. If he had ruled 2 outs, then as bad as that call might be, you're right - do nothing.

But he ruled 1 out - a result that is impossible regardless of his judgement. We have a RULES mistake here, and rules mistakes (when noted) MUST be fixed. So yes, we would definitely be huddling on this one - the appropriate rule would be stated, and U2 would, based on his own judgement of the play, announce the proper penalty.

I hope it is after U2 comes for help or someone says "I protest".


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