An observation about lightning

[His High Holiness]

All;

Most of my games concern participants over the age of 18 so I usually don't have to worry about the question that I am about to pose.

Last night I was doing a game under NCAA rules with all participants over the age of 18. (except for the batboys.) We had two lightning delays and during the delays I got to thinking about how youth ball umpires handle the following:

When we stopped the game for lightning per our protocols, no rain came. The players milled around outside the dugouts playing catch or whatever. The fans sat in the metal bleachers as perfect targets for a lightning bolt as if nothing was wrong. My partner and I took cover but few others seemed to care that there was danger in the area.

Now I am not a nanny to adults. If they want to be stupid, that is their right. But do umpires of minors have any responsibility to make sure that all of the players take cover? Or is that the coach's job? Once we stop the game, do only the coaches have the responsibility to see that their charges are behaving responsibly?

How do other umpires handle this? BTW, I insisted that the batboys get into the dugouts in this game.

Peter

[Lonewolf986]

Ive had this situation a couple of times, and have only had to stop one game. Ive had to delay plenty of others though for 15- 30 minutes, depending on how many delays we give them.

I see flashes, I call a time, and warn the coaches of a situation that MAY come up.

I see actual streaks, I call everyone to sit INSIDE their dugouts...noone goes out...

we then follow the procedure for the games...

If I see that the streaks are right on top of it, I tell everyone to leave thier gear and wait in the cars or under the cement concession stand (and we go through a "2delay times" delay (meaning 30minutes)

Our coaches dont try and fight our decisions because they are 1) understanding 2) dont want to piss off the parents of thier "star players"

In Youth ball, parents are too quick to judge...and sometimes want thier kids off the field at the SIGHT of a flash...

I wait for streaks, and when I see that the streaks are almost on top of us, we shut down the entire park. (7 or 4 fields)..and I consult the other 12 umpires. If ONE umpire feels edgy (within reason) then we stop all the games.

We have pretty bad storms where we live, so alot of the guys who've lived here all our lives, we know when NOT to flirt with Mother Nature...

Even adults, I have found, to be AS afraid of the lightning. Though, at 18+ they are more aware of it, and when it IS a threat. So delays happen less often when I work with adults, as opposed to teenagers and kids.

[tiger49]

I like to use a loose interpretation of rule 3.17 (OBR)

"Players and substitutes of both teams shall confine themselves to their team's benches unless actually participating in the play or preparing to enter the game, or coaching at first or third base. No one except players, substitutes, managers, coaches, trainers and bat boys shall occupy a bench during a game."

I then tell the managers that it is best to seek shelter for safety's sake and that I will allow about 10 minutes to warm-up when we get started again.

[Lonewolf986]

ouch, 10minutes of warmup? I can see that for adults, but on time limit games, just the pitcher should be allowed to send some down the pipe (8 at most.)

[ref5678]

Being a 15 years old I deal with ages any where between 11 and 18. On occasions I have even worked adult womens fastpitch games. When I even a flash of lighting everyones off the field in their dugouts when I do the adult games I use this phrase"Im takin cover what you guys do is your business." With youths they take cover, normally without being prompted, but evry once in a while ill remove someone from the field, just to cover my on butt, and the league for which I am a UIC for. And of course so noone gets hurt. You dont want to play with mother nature.

[w_sohl]

Just a point of interest, if you can hear thunder, lighting can strike you. You don't need to see it to be struck by it. I hear thunder, we are sitting it out or calling the game.

[GarthB]

1. We use the five mile rule. Lightening seen within five miles results in calling everyone off the field. We then wait until 15 minutes has passed after the last sign of lightening. Each new event causes the clock to start over.

2. We issue the initial order to take cover, but it then becomes the coach's responsibility to keep his kids under cover. That said, if we see some idiot coach letting his kids warm-up outide during the time they should be undercover, we'll remind him of the status of the game.

3. The usual time delay is 15 to 20 minutes. We'll give the pitcher 5-8 warmups, as he feels the need, and then go.

[Esper]

This thread caught my eye...not too long ago I was at a park where we had four games ended due to lightning.

The procedure I've been told (and only had to enforce twice) is as follows:

As soon as an umpire, coach, player, parent or executive sees a flash or hears thunder, the plate umpire of each game is notified, and play stops immediatly. Players and coachers are instructed to stay in the dugouts, umpires and executives return to the scoresheds, clubhouses or umpires' rooms (depending on the park). Parents are encouraged to return to their cars, or seek refuge in a dugout until play resumes.

If a sensible amount of time (usually 15 - 20 minutes) passes without another bolt, play resumes, but as soon as there is another flash or a hint of more stormy weather (we have, in one case, accepted cows running for cover as a sign of more lightning), the games are ended.

For reference, I umpire 7 - 12 year old Baseball and 7 - 17 year old Softball.

[IHSAIllini]

Depends. If we're working a game in the league where I'm the AUIC, then I have the authority to order everyone off the field, and I do. Other games...well, they mostly listen to me. I haven't had a situation where a very even "Coach, you are jeopardizing the safety of your players" audible to the gallery didn't do the trick.

The rule in the league I am the AUIC for goes as follows: see lightning, hear thunder - and I'll usually take parents at good faith on this one, because they don't want kids getting hurt...well, most of them - play's suspended for thirty minutes. If in that thirty minute period another sighting occurs, the game is off and the field is cleared. If no sighting, back out and resume play. I'd give the pitcher eight down the pipe, at a fast pace.

I like our rule. We haven't had any trouble with kids getting hurt, just with my kids (the umps) not enforcing it. I've had to chew several out after getting talked into continuing by coaches. Of course, I had the Board of Directors suspend the coaches for knowingly violating the rules...ain't I a stinker.

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
All;

Most of my games concern participants over the age of 18 so I usually don't have to worry about the question that I am about to pose.

...[snip]...

Now I am not a nanny to adults. If they want to be stupid, that is their right. But do umpires of minors have any responsibility to make sure that all of the players take cover? Or is that the coach's job? Once we stop the game, do only the coaches have the responsibility to see that their charges are behaving responsibly?

How do other umpires handle this? BTW, I insisted that the batboys get into the dugouts in this game.

Peter

Peter, I know that you specifically asked about "umpires of minors" and like you I seldom umpire players who do not shave. All the same, I'd like to suggest that the umpire DOES have a certain level of responsibility, EVEN if the participants are adults and theoretically responsible for their own actions. I look at it like this:

1. From the moment I accept the home team's lineup card, I'm in charge of everything that happens on that diamond until I leave at the end of play.

2. Although I can't be held responsible for the stupidity of another adult, I do have a duty of care to warn each and every participant if I can detect a reasonably forseeable danger

3. Standing around in the open swinging a metal bat, or leaning up against a metal mesh backstop, when there is lightning about IS a "reasonably forseeable danger"

I've had to warn adults not to do those very things on more than one occasion, and invariably they've thanked me afterward because they simply hadn't thought about the possible consequences.

I wouldn't want it on my conscience that I failed to offer a well-meaning warning in such circumstances and someone was seriously injured, or worse, as the result.

Cheers

[Jerry]

SOP for virtually all games I officiate . . . adult or otherwise:

Aware of the forecast beforehand or at game time, if lightning is observed by anyone participating in the game (player, coach or official), the game is suspended immediately and delayed for AT LEAST 30 minutes from the time of the last lightning strike.

My partner and I go together to each of the dugouts/benches and, if the site has a covered pavilion, advise all participants to seek shelter there. We encourage them to take their equipment with them; in case a thunderstorm or downpour comes. (We don't instruct spectators at all.) We also ensure that both scorekeepers have the same situation listed for purposes of resuming play.

If no pavilion is available, we ENCOURAGE them to return to their vehicles to wait it out. We don't however, stick around to see that everyone has left the dugouts or bench area. After giving our instructions, the two of us decide where we're going . . . either the groundskeepers room, umpire's locker room, the aforementioned pavilion, or to our vehicles.

We don't allow anyone onto the fields prior to our return. Warm-up time is limited to 5-8 pitches only. A few more if it takes longer to get the equipment back into the dugout.

Jerry