3 and You're Out!

dash_riprock · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 03:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

This is pretty simple...if the player is tagged out...I say show me the ball...then I either bang them out or call them safe if he cant show me the ball...not that tough.

I would recommend finding the ball without asking the fielder.

BigUmp56 · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 05:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I would recommend finding the ball without asking the fielder.

I think this is dependant on the level of play. In a HS game or above, I agree that we don't need to ask a fielder to show us the ball. At lower levels of ball it's not a bad thing to do. I've seen many times when a fielder has applied what looked to be a tag with possesion of the ball end up with the ball under the runner or even the fielder. They both just look up at you while laying in a pile with a deer in the headlights look waiting for you to make a call. A simple "show me the ball" gives them the hint they're looking for.

YMMV

Tim.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I think this is dependant on the level of play. In a HS game or above, I agree that we don't need to ask a fielder to show us the ball. At lower levels of ball it's not a bad thing to do. I've seen many times when a fielder has applied what looked to be a tag with possesion of the ball end up with the ball under the runner or even the fielder. They both just look up at you while laying in a pile with a deer in the headlights look waiting for you to make a call. A simple "show me the ball" gives them the hint they're looking for.

YMMV

Tim.

There are HS or college players that do not know to do that on certain plays. I have no problem with someone asking if they have not shown them some evidence that they caught the ball. Usually a player that has caught the ball is very willing to show the ball to prove they made the play. I do not see this as a big deal as it is better to make the call based on them having the ball then making a call and assuming.

Peace

BigUmp56 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are HS or college players that do not know to do that on certain plays. I have no problem with someone asking if they have not shown them some evidence that they caught the ball. Usually a player that has caught the ball is very willing to show the ball to prove they made the play. I do not see this as a big deal as it is better to make the call based on them having the ball then making a call and assuming.

Peace

I'm with you, Jeff. The reason I don't think we need to do it in HS and above is because the players at that level know they need to show us the ball on these type of plays. Perhaps it's because both youth associations I belong to instruct our umpires to ask to see the ball, and the HS players that came through those programs are accustomed to it.

Tim.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 11:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm with you, Jeff. The reason I don't think we need to do it in HS and above is because the players at that level know they need to show us the ball on these type of plays. Perhaps it's because both youth associations I belong to instruct our umpires to ask to see the ball, and the HS players that came through those programs are accustomed to it.

Tim.

I do not disagree with that position at all. I just do not see a major problem if someone does either way. But I would not call someone out if it is unclear if they caught the ball. Sometimes it is obvious.

Peace

MD Longhorn · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 05, 2012, 08:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not disagree with that position at all. I just do not see a major problem if someone does either way. But I would not call someone out if it is unclear if they caught the ball. Sometimes it is obvious.

Peace

True, but at least 4 times this year, a MLB umpire called a player out when the fielder did not, in fact, have the ball.

dash_riprock · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 05, 2012, 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not disagree with that position at all. I just do not see a major problem if someone does either way. But I would not call someone out if it is unclear if they caught the ball. Sometimes it is obvious.

Peace

The potential problem is when the fielder raises his glove/mitt to show you the ball (after you've directed him to do so), and the ball pops out. Now you have a no-tag, and it's all your fault.

It is the umpire's job to find the ball, unassisted.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 05, 2012, 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

The potential problem is when the fielder raises his glove/mitt to show you the ball (after you've directed him to do so), and the ball pops out. Now you have a no-tag, and it's all your fault.

It is the umpire's job to find the ball, unassisted.

You lost me here. What do you mean the ball pops out? If you have the tag with the ball, why would it fall out afterwards and be your fault?

Peace

MD Longhorn · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 05, 2012, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

The potential problem is when the fielder raises his glove/mitt to show you the ball (after you've directed him to do so), and the ball pops out. Now you have a no-tag, and it's all your fault.

It is the umpire's job to find the ball, unassisted.

Please tell me you're not one of those "Voluntary release can last for 30 seconds" guys. Had a partner try to tell me (and enforce!) that if an outfielder catches a ball, then jogs in toward his dugout and the ball falls out near the mound, it wasn't a voluntary release, therefore not a catch.

The player makes a catch or tag, then loses the ball on subsequent action, it's still a catch/tag. "Voluntary release" is a guide on a banger, it doesn't last forever.

Steve Meyer · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Sep 04, 2012, 06:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I think this is dependant on the level of play. In a HS game or above, I agree that we don't need to ask a fielder to show us the ball. At lower levels of ball it's not a bad thing to do. I've seen many times when a fielder has applied what looked to be a tag with possesion of the ball end up with the ball under the runner or even the fielder. They both just look up at you while laying in a pile with a deer in the headlights look waiting for you to make a call. A simple "show me the ball" gives them the hint they're looking for.

YMMV

Tim.

What do you do if one of them throws the ball at you after asking to see it?

Just saying.