Jim Palmer trying to match Tim McCarver

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

They were obviously both correctly dumped.

My question is why did the Home Plate Umpire say pulled foot if he was not certain.

Where did he say he wasn't certain?

[jwwashburn]

If he was not certain, he should have given no opinion.

[briancurtin]

Maybe he was certain?

[JRutledge]

This is where "get it right" gets it wrong. It was so close and I think the original call was correct. Oh well, welcome to MLB.

Peace

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

Maybe he was certain?

No, he guessed wrong. There is no way he clearly saw the foot off the bag before the ball was in the glove...because it did not happen.

Unless I clearly see that my partner is wrong, there is no way I am going to be a party to him changing his call.

In this case, there is no way that he clearly saw that he was wrong because he was not wrong.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

No, he guessed wrong. There is no way he clearly saw the foot off the bag before the ball was in the glove...because it did not happen.

Unless I clearly see that my partner is wrong, there is no way I am going to be a party to him changing his call.

In this case, there is no way that he clearly saw that he was wrong because he was not wrong.

This is incorrect. You can be certain of what you saw and still have seen it incorrectly. There's no law of the universe that says we always see things the way the actually happen.

And at any rate, I think he was safe.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

This is incorrect. You can be certain of what you saw and still have seen it incorrectly. There's no law of the universe that says we always see things the way the actually happen.

And at any rate, I think he was safe.

It has got to be right if you give that kind of information. I know I had doubt when the call was made live. It cannot be kind of right or what you think it might have been, it must be RIGHT. We all have judgment calls and those judgment calls will be wrong. I think he was out but at first glance I thought the call was incorrect. Sometimes we just have to live with the close ones. I even think if replay was involved this would have stayed the same way.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It has got to be right if you give that kind of information. I know I had doubt when the call was made live. It cannot be kind of right or what you think it might have been, it must be RIGHT. We all have judgment calls and those judgment calls will be wrong. I think he was out but at first glance I thought the call was incorrect. Sometimes we just have to live with the close ones. I even think if replay was involved this would have stayed the same way.

Peace

I agree with all of this. I just giving the PU the benefit that he was certain he was right.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

This is incorrect. You can be certain of what you saw and still have seen it incorrectly. There's no law of the universe that says we always see things the way the actually happen.

And at any rate, I think he was safe.

1) He was obviously not safe. If you think so in spite of video evidence, I don't think we can help you here.

2) You're missing the point. You don't overturn a call because you THINK it was wrong - you can only tell your partner he missed a pulled foot if you KNOW it. If you can be certain of something that didn't happen, again, I question whether you should be out there at all. If you are not POSITIVE, you don't change the call.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

1) He was obviously not safe. If you think so in spite of video evidence, I don't think we can help you here.

2) You're missing the point. You don't overturn a call because you THINK it was wrong - you can only tell your partner he missed a pulled foot if you KNOW it. If you can be certain of something that didn't happen, again, I question whether you should be out there at all. If you are not POSITIVE, you don't change the call.

1) I can't tell for certain when he gloves the ball, only when it disappears from view. It disappears from view as he foot leaves the bag. Therefore the runner should be safe. Your mileage obviously varies, but that's just another example of why replay doesn't solve everything.

2) You're missing the point. Even assuming the PU was wrong, that doesn't mean he was uncertain. He can be positive and wrong. It's not mutually exclusive. The PU KNEW F3 pulled his foot, even if he was wrong about it.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

1) He was obviously not safe. If you think so in spite of video evidence, I don't think we can help you here.

2) You're missing the point. You don't overturn a call because you THINK it was wrong - you can only tell your partner he missed a pulled foot if you KNOW it. If you can be certain of something that didn't happen, again, I question whether you should be out there at all. If you are not POSITIVE, you don't change the call.

As an attorney, I have seen numerous law journal articles about eyewitness testimony. There are numerous studies addressing the reliability of eyewitness testimony. Without going into all the details, the general gist is that there are numerous studies that have shown that eyewitnesses can be "certain" as to what they saw, and as they are questioned more and more about what they saw their mind makes them "more certain" as to what they saw. The problem? In these studies what these eyewitnesses saw was also video recorded and what these eyewitnesses were "certain" they saw simply did not happen as shown on the video tape.

People can be "certain" as to what they saw all the time and the idea that they may be "guessing" never enters their mind. Yet, they are still wrong. I've even heard persons say "I don't care what the videotape shows, that's not what I saw!"

I am "certain" (LOL) that the home plate umpire was "certain" that F3 had pulled his foot. I'm sure as the argument escalated on the field, he became more and more certain in his mind as to what he saw. The only problem is that the video tape does not corroborate what PU was certain he saw.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

No, he guessed wrong. There is no way he clearly saw the foot off the bag before the ball was in the glove...because it did not happen.

So now he guessed? Where do you get all of this information from?