Hand to mouth, FED
 

I found this in my 2002 high school rule book.

6-2-1 Illegal acts include bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball.

6-2-1 Penalty: for defacing the ball (a-e) the ball is dead immediately. The umpire may eject the pitcher. If such defaced ball is pitched and then detected, it is an illegal pitch.

6-2-4c balk if making an illegal pitch from any position.

But (assuming it hasn't changed in the last ten years) it isn't an illegal pitch unless the ball is PITCHED! So just going to the mouth shouldn't be a balk?

I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules".

But did they? or has the penalty changed since 2002?

Rita

Here's what you're looking for from 2012 NFHS rules, Rita.

For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time
a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate.

Without a pitch it should have been ruled a ball. Unless F1 went to his mouth after coming set.


Tim.

Even with runners on?

Rita

I think there's a case play that says going to the mouth with runners on base while in contact is to be ruled a balk.

Tim.

Tim: "I think there's a case play that says going to the mouth with runners on base while in contact is to be ruled a balk."

2011 FED Casebook
6.1.3 SITUATION O: With R1 at third and R2 at first, F1 is in contact with the pitcher’s plate but has not yet come set. He brings his pitching hand to his mouth and distinctly wipes it off. RULING: Balk, award R1 home and R2 second. The pitcher cannot bring his hand to his mouth because the pitcher is required to go to the set position without interruption and in one continuous motion.

NFHS 2-18 defines an illegal “pitch” as an illegal “act.” No pitch is required. If F1 commits the illegal act at 6-2-1e, the violation is penalized in one of three ways:

1. Ball, if committed with a live ball while not in contact an subsequently comes in contact; or,
2. Ball, if committed with a live ball while in contact with no runner/s on base; or,
3. Balk, if committed with a live ball while in contact with runner/s on base; or,

By the way, the “act” is ruled nothing if committed with a live ball while F1 is not in contact and subsequently the status of the ball is declared dead before F1 comes in contact.

"I bring this up because this was apparently miscalled in a Senior Little League World Series game. Little League uses OBR so the infraction should have been penalized by a ball to the batter. Unfortunately, the umpires ruled by "high school rules"."

LL allows protests so was there one if the umps ruled it a 8.02(a)(1) violation which is always a ball penalty.
If the umps ruled it an 8.02(a)(2 thru 6) violation with runners on it would be a balk. You would know if they called that one because the pitcher would be ejected.

Shame if they were using FED at that level. If so the current case play calls it a balk if F1 was on the rubber with runners on. That case play is at odds with another one that allows hat adjustment and other moves prior to coming set.

My guess is that the umpires in this game do a lot of FED ball, and just confused the rule. Although I'm surprised that all four of them brain-farted on it, since the PU who made the initial balk call conferenced with his partners after the manager complained.

As far as I know, the manager did not formally protest.

You're wrong, but hey isn't that your modus operadi.

All the best!

Except that for NFHS rules, he's exactly right.

I'm a little confused with your answer. It is never a balk in OBR (LL included) baseball.

Going to your mouth is not a balk. He didn't mention anything about wiping his hand.

Did you read cookie's post, Jeff....er, I mean Steven?

If you read the cites I agree going to your mouth is never a balk in OBR and shouldn't be in FED but unfortunately due to the casebook and some approved rulings in FED it is if you have a runner and the pitcher is on the rubber.
I was trying to give the involved umps a way out with the 8.02(a)(2 thru 6)rule which does allow a balk but also requires an ejection. I don't think that is what happened here but who knows.
If they were using FED rules here they were remiss. Even in our District umpire briefs we cover those specific differences (We do mostly HS). We even cover the LGB failure to update to the OBR rule concerning going to the mouth on the dirt. We call it like OBR and tell them that if they go furthor it might be called one way or the other. Find out how they will call it. Since MLB changed the rule to avoid the waste of time that the pitcher would spend walking down to the grass I don't think anybody would mind if it was called that way even if LL did not pick up on the change.
But apparantely, at the LL SBBWS, the umps did not only know the difference between the LGB and OBR, they did not know that FED was different from both.

Excuse me but you did it again. At one point you say it is never a balk, and then you say rule 8.02(a) allows it.

Please show me what part EVER says that a balk is allowed. I don't see it.

All I see is a ball being called and an ejection if the pitcher persists.

Rita

Case play 6.1.3 Situation O. I don't get why people, especially Rita who's been presented this case play multiple times, are still arguing that it's not a balk. If the pitcher is engaged with the pitching plate and goes to his mouth with runners on, it most certainly is. The case play defines that result.

You, on the other hand, are simply trolling.

8.02(a)(1), going to your mouth improperly, is never a balk in OBR.
8.02(a)(2), expectorating on the ball, hand or glove, is a balk with runners on. Edited to add: The balk penalty is in the Penalty paragraph (d) further on in the chapter. Edited to add further: I see the problem. The LGB does not read the same way. My penalty is from the MLB OBR.

Regarding FED the quoted case play makes it a balk because it is the start of coming set and is stopped. I'm not happy that that is the way they want it called. They have another case play that allows hat adjustment and other arm motions without it being a balk. That case play actually called those things a balk several years ago. Then one year it was quietly reversed to no balk. I hope they do the same thing with the hand to mouth case play.

Only if the pitcher stops his motion to come to a stop/set position.

How can he go to his mouth and not interupt coming set? Even you cannot be this obtuse....

Brother, Group ~

Rita is contending that it's not a balk in OBR. I'm sure she understands now that it's a balk in FED.......................

Tim.

Interesting. I looked it up in my 2011 MLB OBR pdf and there it is:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02 (a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be
suspended automatically. In National Association Leagues, the
automatic suspension shall be for 10 games.
(b) If a play follows the violation called by the umpire, the manager of the
team at bat may advise the umpire-in-chief that he elects to accept the
play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play.
However, if the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls,
a hit batsman, or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before
advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to
the violation.
(c) Even though the team at bat elects to take the play, the violation shall be recognized and the penalties in subsection (a) will still be in effect.
(d) If the manager of the team at bat does not elect to accept the play, the
umpire-in-chief shall call an automatic ball and, if there are any runners
on base, a balk.

However, this is new! I have the 2001 copy, which is what I first read, four times through, before I became an umpire. It says:

PENALTY: For violation of any part of this rule 8.02 (a) (2 to 6) the umpire shall:
(a) Call the pitch a ball, warn the pitcher and have announced on the public address system the reason for the action.
(b) In the case of a second offense by the same pitcher in the same game, the pitcher shall be disqualified from the game.

(c) If a play follows the violation called by the umpire, the manager of the offense may advise the plate umpire that he elects to accept the play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play. However, if the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batsman, or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation.
(d) Even though the offense elects to take the play, the violation shall be recognized and the penalties in (a) and (b) will still be in effect.

So MLB changed. And this is one change Little League hasn't yet chosen to follow.

It is also interesting that it is a balk only IF THERE IS A PLAY and the manager declines to accept the play.

Thank you for helping clear that up.

Rita

Little League does not call balks, so that is the biggest difference.

It does in the upper divisions. 13-18 year olds. And will in the 50/70 I think.

Rita

They do in the division that inspired this thread, Senior League. They also do in Junior League and Big League. So 3 of the 4 baseball divisions that have a World Series have balks.

Try again.

Was the part about continuous motion too confusing for you?

I am aware. No need to be snarky.

You didn't seem to be aware when you responded to my post.

And you are a master of being snarky yourself.

Or are you only telling the "truth" when you speak?

Rita

FYI-I didn't respond to your post, or I would have quoted it in some fashion. It was a statement.

The OP went from Senior Little League to FED.

I will try to paint with a broader brush next time.

All the best.

And yet Senior Little League has balks, so why did your post even show up here?

No part of it. I get it. You said that going to the mouth with runners on is only a balk if he stops his motion to come set. My point to you, which you obviously missed, was that you're stating the obvious for no reason. Because a pitcher OBVIOUSLY cannot go to his mouth and NOT interupt his motion to come set.


Tim.