He Really Saw This?!
 

Even with slo-mo, it's too hard to tell.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23688533

I'm guessing U3 changed U1's call here. But, man, that's a tough sell.

Its hard to tell even with the replay whether it bounced off the ground or his glove webbing, I agree but, you are paid to make a decsion. Your either going to throw out the DHC or the OHC but, someone is not going to agree with your decision.

That is truly the human part of the game that will never change.

I don't think anyone had to go here. The covering official makes his best call, and away we go.

The Rockies skipper ejected himself by the manner in which he objected to one official changing another's call, which you have to admit was kinda bogus.

I confess that even with my "Don't yell at the umpire" mentality, if I were coaching a game and this happened, I'd end up ejecting myself as well. The overrule was not only wrong, it was in contravention to the rules.

I am leaning towards it being a trap, but I cannot say definitively. Tough call in real time either way.

Peace

I couldn't quite make out what happened in the umpire powwow. U3 might have "given more info" to U1 and let him change his call, and then he might have taken the heat for the changed call because he was senior. Nothing against the rules in any of that.

I agree that it didn't really LOOK like that happened. :(

First, I love Vin Scully. Every game he broadcasts is a treat, and we should enjoy his voice, just like we did Chick Hearn with the Lakers. It's HoF stuff on a daily basis.

Man, even with HD slow mo, you can't really tell if it hits the edge of the web, and bounce up, or it's the ground. The old rule of thumb is if it bounces up, it must have hit the ground first. That's probably what they went with.

I've got no problem with the call, the meeting, the reversal or the EJ. That's all by the book, with everyone doing their job properly. Tracy had to get himself run in that situation. That's baseball.

I still love Vin reading lips, and translating, though.

I didn't see anyone overruling a call out there. Just a request to get help, a conference, and then a decision. SOP, fellas.

"SOP", as you call it, would have U1 asking for help, and then making the final call after he receives that help. That's clearly stipulated in 9.02(c).

Now, that may have happened in the huddle, but it was clear to me that U1 never gave a "Safe" signal before the crew chief called over the Rockies manager. I suppose he felt that was his job to do, but it goes counter to "SOP".

I see your point, Manny. To me, I looked liked they skipped U1 stepping back and calling "No catch", and fastforwarded to the Crew Chief explaining what happened. I'm sure they fully knew the end result was going to be an EJ, so why not get right to it?

"Blinking fertilizer". Classic.

Kyle, that's possible. But I'm sure Tracy would have jumped out of the dugout the moment U1 gave a "No Catch", and not wait for U3 to call him.

But, hey, these guys are at the pinnacle of their craft. They can do whatever they blinking want! :p

I think they did what they had to and given their experience and their best observation of what happened, (they didn't get the chance to watch 5 tmes like I did and I still can't tell), the correct call was made for that situation.

I don't believe for one minute that they can do whatever they want but, they "are at the pinnacle of their craft" and thats something everyone of us wish we could be at also. Unfortunately though, as many wish, perfection will never happen.

I just can't believe that U3 was so certain it bounced that he was able to convince U1 to overturn the call.

Love Vin Scully. It's a crying shame I can't get the Dodger broadcasts where I live without going through MLB TV.

First time I saw it, I thought no catch.

Slo mo just confirmed it.

Rita

Not a catch.

Look at 5:10 - 5:15 in this video: Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | COL@LAD: Tracy gets ejected after animated argument - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

yep this angle shows it clearly hitting the grass. Not pretty but they got it right!

Thanks
David

Agree.

Yeah, but there's no way that U3 could see that definitively. He might've seen a change in direction in the ball's travel, but that change could've happened with the ball hitting the glove's webbing instead of the ground (and until you provided this video clip, that's what it looked like).

What this clip also showed was that U1 never changed his initial call. After U3 left the crew discussion to inform the manager of the decision, the camera stayed on the remaining three umpires. The impression I got was that U1 wasn't happy with the reversal.

Question on MLB protocol on such things... Doesn't the calling umpire have to agree for the call to be reversed?

Theory: The calling umpire gets help from his/her partners, and then decides to either stick with his/her call, or change it.

Practice: The crew chief listens to everybody's viewpoint, then tells them what he/she decides, regardless if the calling umpire agrees.

:p

:confused: Really- I thinks its more like your Opinion, not a Practice.

The crew chief listens to everybody's viewpoint, then tells them what he/she decides, regardless if the calling umpire agrees.

Ummm, that's EXACTLY what happened here.

I'm not suggesting that that's the way it happens all the time. But for some reason, U3 felt he had to make this final call instead of U1. By the book, this is a violation of 9.02(c).

Where the crew chief gives the final determination is under 9.04(c) when two umpries make different calls on the same play. I didn't see that happen here, although admittedly the video replay never showed it. Perhaps U1 came up with the Catch call, and U3 gave a No Catch call. If THAT happened, then they got it right.

Jice - we've seen enough examples of this to know that it's what's really going on, regardless of what the rules say should be going on.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the Crew Chief, or game UIC, can step in when two umpires make different calls, in real time, on the same play, and in protests, where the crew can't come to a conclusion.

But that's it.

I am not saying I am right, I am suggestion that unless someone is privey to the conversations that take place on the field, then it is only, an opinion.

Of course, if your an play by play guy or sports writer, then it is fact because, they know it all.

Well, a few of us can read lips. ;)

I've seen a couple of these (not THIS one, of course) where the umpires get together, and the only one talking is the crew chief - who then makes the call himself (as opposed to what the rest of us would do, and have the umpire that made the initial call make the new call - whether changed or not). It's obvious there have been crew-chief over-rulings a few times in the last couple of years.

They ended up getting it right. I'm not sure exactly how, but they got it right. They didn't use a replay. Didn't flip a coin. Just 4 human beings got it right.