Umpires declare incorrect number of outs.

[mick]

American Legion game.

With one out and Red R2, Blue catcher requested time for mask repair.
The repair turned out to be a 10-15 minute replacement with the opposing teams helmet/mask.

When the catcher was ready again, PU yells to BU, "How many outs?" and the answer was, "Two."
PU says, "Play."

BR grounds to left side and is thrown out at first.
Both teams leave the field.

As the Red team jogs to position, it is discovered there were only two outs total. Umpires put Red up to bat and Blue goes back to position.
The umpires initially put Red R2 on third and then moved him back to second. Play, then resumed with an easy third out (I don't remember how, and it doesn't matter.).
The game continued without incident.

---

Green coach (next game) asked me, "What happens when an umpire makes such a mistake? Why isn't the Runner out for going to the dugout? Could the defensive team do anything?"

I told him Runner was not out because he did not knowingly abandon the bases because he believed the umpires, and that the defense could not appeal the play once they left the field.
He asked, Well, what is the ruling for umpire mistakes?"
I told him, "In this case, the umpire should use his judgement as to what is the fair way to handle the problem, and that the umpires did make such a judgement to make it right."

What should've/could've been done?

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by mick
American Legion game.

With one out and Red R2, Blue catcher requested time for mask repair.
The repair turned out to be a 10-15 minute replacement with the opposing teams helmet/mask.

When the catcher was ready again, PU yells to BU, "How many outs?" and the answer was, "Two."
PU says, "Play."

BR grounds to left side and is thrown out at first.
Both teams leave the field.

As the Red team jogs to position, it is discovered there were only two outs total. Umpires put Red up to bat and Blue goes back to position.
The umpires initially put Red R2 on third and then moved him back to second. Play, then resumed with an easy third out (I don't remember how, and it doesn't matter.).
The game continued without incident.

---

Green coach (next game) asked me, "What happens when an umpire makes such a mistake? Why isn't the Runner out for going to the dugout? Could the defensive team do anything?"

I told him Runner was not out because he did not knowingly abandon the bases because he believed the umpires, and that the defense could not appeal the play once they left the field.
He asked, Well, what is the ruling for umpire mistakes?"
I told him, "In this case, the umpire should use his judgement as to what is the fair way to handle the problem, and that the umpires did make such a judgement to make it right."

What should've/could've been done?

I don't see any problem with the way the situation was handled. When the umpires make a mistake that can reasonably be undone, the mistake should be corrected as soon as it is discovered.

The precedent lies in JEA on Rule 1.01, which says:

Professional Interpretation: If a club cannot field a team of nine players. the game shall be forfeited. (Rule 4.17)

All play that occurs with less than nine defensive players on the field is nullified.{my underline}

It would be umpire error to put the ball in play with less than 9 defensive players on the field. The solution is to nullify all play after the error and do over. I believe that erroneously declaring a half-inning closed would likely fall into the same category, and it's a whole lot easier to rectify. IMO the best course is to use 9.01(c) for authority and rule in line with the JEA precedent.

Cheers

[mick]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

I don't see any problem with the way the situation was handled. When the umpires make a mistake that can reasonably be undone, the mistake should be corrected as soon as it is discovered.

Cheers

Thanks, Warren!

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by mick
Thanks, Warren!

You're welcome, Mick.

Actually, now I've had a chance to think more about it, I wouldn't use 9.01(c) for authority either. There's a perfectly good rule at 5.07 that clearly covers. Get 'em all back out there and continue on from the moment of the erroneous decision, as per JEA on 1.01.

Cheers

[mick]

Originally posted by Warren Willson

You're welcome, Mick.

Actually, now I've had a chance to think more about it, I wouldn't use 9.01(c) for authority either. There's a perfectly good rule at 5.07 that clearly covers. Get 'em all back out there and continue on from the moment of the erroneous decision, as per JEA on 1.01.

Cheers

Warren,
Yeah, I guess we could kinda, sorta use both of those rules.
One of the troubles with the rules of baseball is that there aren't enough cool rules for when we kick one, unlike basketball where we have rules for an inadvertent whistle and about 5 correctable situations when we blow it.

The rules in both sports assume we're perfect, and of course, we're pretty dang close.
mick

[cowbyfan1]

Funny this was brought up cuz I did the same thing in an Adult league. The home team asked me a few times how many outs there were. Both the PU and I had 2 (he originally had it right but for some reason changed thinking I had it right instead of saying he had different). We get a strike out for the "third" out.. Defense leaves the field. R2 was running on the play just kept running and touched home. Visitors point out there was ony 2 outs after the KO. We check the books and found out it was true. So I put the runner back on second with 2 outs. Visitors threw a fit but I told them it was the fair thing to do. They pushed to even not retaking the base and I told them if the runner did not go back to second I would call him out for abandoning the base. Next batter made the 3rd out on a grounder.