Canada/US difference
 

Thought the US guys would find this amusing.

Was talking with a coach of a Canadian Midget team (16-18 year old) that went down to the US for a tournament and I asked how it went. He said that they learned real quick about some of the differences between Canadian and US rules.

After a controversial call, the third base coach(not the manager) walked over to the base umpire and was about say something when he was ejected from the game. The coach asked why he was ejected and the base umpire ignored him, the manager then when out to find out what the problem was and was told that only the manager could speak to the umpires.

At that point they knew they weren't in Canada any more and he said the coaches (and the manager) were too afraid to speak to the umpires again! :)

NOTE: I can't seem to reply to this thread.....have been trying for the past 24 hours! I don't know the whole story just what one of the assistants told me about the incident. He simply said that they were unfamiliar about the FED rules regarding speaking to umpires but they sure learned quick when other assistant tried to question a call.

Every time I read about Canadian Midget baseball I picture this:

http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/wp-...125965jpeg.jpg

First of all, I'm Canadian eh! Is this really an American thing or is there more to the story? A base umpire can't speak to an umpire?

FED has a rule prohibiting base coaches from leaving their position to argue a call.

In general, assistant coaches have very little latitude; if a head coach wants an explanation, I'll give it to him. If an asst. coach is not an azz about it, I'll talk to him too.

They play OBR-based in Canada so the FED prohibition would be strange to them.

Manager - Has the right to discuss plays and problems with the umpires. He also has the right to be heard in a dispute of a call (does not mean he will remain in the game). He is usually given a long leash.

Assistant Coaches - Tells players which way to turn, go, get back. Is allowed to ask the count and the number of outs and are allowed to small talk with umpires. They have no right to dispute a call with the umpires nor do they get any tolerance. They get an extremely short leash.

Players - They play the game. They have no right to dispute a call or decision by the umpires. They get no leash at all.

Scorekeepers, ball boys, announcers and other dugout personal - These people have no rights, no leash and will be removed in the blink of an eye if they object to a call or decision.

I don't entertain assistant coaches disputing calls at *any* level. The NFHS may have put this in writing, but that's really the only difference.

Watch more pro games - you know - the ones that the OBR was written for. Coaches and players "discuss" calls with umpires REGULARLY and as long as they don't cross the line they are alloerd to do so.

The instant tossing of a coach or player is bad game management.

I don't toss them -- I just don't pay attention to them. It's hard for a first base coach to argue a play at first if he has to talk to my back.

Perhaps if youth assistants *did* get run more quickly they'd learn that only managers should be talking to umpires about calls.

Don't care where you are from, this is just an arrogant Ahole dressed as a umpire and who gives a bad name to the thousands of officials that work hard and still know how to be professional too.

I don't know about that -- let's assume they're working 2-umpire mechanics. The THIRD base coach, *not* the manager, walked out to the base umpire to discuss a play.

Do we let base coaches who are not the manager come out onto the field to discuss plays?

I think there's something missing from the story, myself.

There may well be something missing from the original story, but ultimately this isn't about rules differences. . .rather, it's about difference in etiquette.

I have umpired Summer baseball tournaments in Florida that included teams from Canada and USSSA Girls' Fastpitch Softball tournaments here in NW Ohio and the only teams that can be depended upon to have classy players and coaches are the Canadian teams.

MTD, Sr.

I will have a civil conversation with anyone and answer questions that are asked, within reason. The head coach will get more latitude in discussions about calls or decisions. No one will argue or act like an idiot.

Do I?

As long as it is in a respectful manner, what is wrong with being CIVIL.

The rules don't give us authority to grant permission for "LETTING people out of their boxes". If they choose to do it, and it is not in conformance with the rules, then they pay the penalty.

Sometimes officials assume way too much authority than explictly given and then when things go screwy on them, because they walked on the field with attitude, can't understand what went wrong.

I realize that is not the norm but, it happens.

Expound on this. What do you mean?

Exactly. That's why I posted it. The Canadian coaches were surprised that they were run, and the FED rule might explain it.

That said, I also agree that tossing anyone just for speaking is over the top. Perhaps that wasn't the entire story...

I feel that anyone who refuses to even talk to an assistant coach is being a pompous fool. But that's just me, and I have gotten an awful lot of mileage by being civil to everyone on the field. They get what they give though.

Example (assistant coach):

Assistant Coach : Wow, that was a close play Bob.
Me: Sure was John, it was bang bang, from where I was I saw him out.

That's where this discussion will end.

Example ( Head Coach):

Head Coach: Bob, for cryin' out loud, he missed the tag by 2 feet.
Me: Ya, John, from where you were, it might have looked that way.
HC: Could you maybe ask Sammy for help? Damn that was brutal.
Me: No John, that's my call all the way, I saw him out, he got tagged on the hand reaching for 2nd.

That's where THIS discussion will end.

Maybe the word 'speak' is being confused with 'discuss' or 'dispute'.

Unfortunately, many times it's the other way around; with the Head Coach calmly commenting and the assistant doing the for cryin' out loud act. No, you don't eject an assistant for calmly, rationally, and in passing questioning the call. What you do eject for is a dumbass assistant that flies into a rage, doesn't buy time for his manager to arrive, and acts like he is the one running the show on the field. I totally agree with Rich Ives that it is bad game management to do the instant ejection the moment the assistant coach opens his mouth. I don't want to give the guy an inferiority complex, I just want him to run along and get his manager to do the arguing on the call. If he can manage to talk nicely until the head honcho arrives, then cool. Otherwise he is going to be ejected after he is warned. The OP, if I am reading it right, did not do a very good job of game management. IMO. The coach wasn't even allowed to open his mouth before getting run, and that sounds pretty fishy to me.

It's why I said that I wonder if there's something missing. I haven't ejected a coach in 4 years and I guarantee that some assistants have talked to me.

I am inclined to eject ANYONE who flies into a rage, and doesn't calm down within about a nano-second and conduct themselves in a rational and sportsmanlike manner.

Sorry about taking so long to respond but having issues responding for some reason. It simply times out and I had to use a different computer!!!!! :mad:

I wasn't there and am only going by what another assistant told me but he did say that the other assistant didn't even open his mouth yet and was tossed and when the manager asked why the assistant was tossed, he was told that only the manager was allowed to speak to the umpires.

They didn't know the FED rule before the tournament but definitely knew it after that ejection!

That's NOT the FED rule. No rule prohibits any participant from speaking to umpires. The FED rule prohibits assistant/base coaches from leaving their position in order to argue a call.

Sounds as if some umpires might be taking advantage of the rule to make it mean something else.

Wrong reaction for FED rules, wrong reaction for an umpire who has people skills.

It may be an American thing. Base umpires, plate umpires, and umpires of all kind speak to each other all the time:)

Don't bother...I don't think he even knows what he said wrong in the sentence.:rolleyes: