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-   -   DET @ CLE No Balk call two ejections (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/91337-det-cle-no-balk-call-two-ejections.html)

mbyron Fri May 25, 2012 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 843399)
Agreed. I see a few veteran pitchers who get away with what would be considered illegal in youth ball, particularly coming to a complete stop at the chest, then stopping again at the belt.
When those pitchers act legally, there's often something else moving during the first pause of the hands — legs wiggling, knee moving, that kind of thing. Not in fact a double stop and not illegal at any level.

It can be effective against overeager runners.

SanDiegoSteve Fri May 25, 2012 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GROUPthink (Post 843417)
It changed in the 80s when they added the word "discernible" for one season and the umpires called a TON of balks. The players union, I believe, never approved the word discernible and it was removed the next season.

No More 'Discernible' Stop, So Balks Will Be Balks Again - Los Angeles Times

Once the word discernible disappeared, the pitchers still seemed to stop a lot better than they did prior to this change.
Yes, 'discernible' was removed, leaving only 'complete' behind. And as we have all been taught, a change of direction does not equate a complete stop. Some of these guys are only changing direction these days. Maybe it's time to start enforcing the 'complete' part of the rule more consistently.

mbyron Fri May 25, 2012 03:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843416)
You do not think they screwed up?
The point of my post was to wonder what on earth we would all do without you around to point out the "errors" you perceive committed by your superiors.

JR12 Fri May 25, 2012 03:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843413)
I have wondered when this changed....I do not think the rule has changed(at least not much) but, the enforcement sure has changed.

Saw some World Series game from the Late 60's and from 1975 not too long ago on ESPN Classic and many of those pitchers did not even pretend to stop...My guess is it changed right around when Lou Brock broke the Stolen Base record?

There is no way anyone was stealing 100+ bases with the way those guys were quick pitching.
Not to change the subject, but anothe major differnce I notice watching games from 30-40 yrs ago is check swings. You could damn near do a helicopter swing before a base umpire would call a strike on an appeal.

SanDiegoSteve Fri May 25, 2012 03:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 843422)
The point of my post was to wonder what on earth we would all do without you around to point out the "errors" you perceive committed by your superiors.
Hmmm...as Hawkeye Pierce said to Frank Burns when Burns said he was a superior officer to Hawkeye, "You have a higher rank, but you are not superior."

Publius Fri May 25, 2012 05:53pm
Davidson would have called it, and people would have been all over his a$$.

Don't get all offended, SDS, if you don't fit the bill, but the average professional umpire of amateur ball is ignorant, ch!cken$sh!t, or both when it comes to calling balks.

In my roughly 2200 game career of probably 90% 2-man, 10% 3-man, I have outcalled my partners on balks I'll bet 20-1.

RPatrino Fri May 25, 2012 06:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius (Post 843433)
Davidson would have called it, and people would have been all over his a$$.

Don't get all offended, SDS, if you don't fit the bill, but the average professional umpire of amateur ball is ignorant, ch!cken$sh!t, or both when it comes to calling balks.

In my roughly 2200 game career of probably 90% 2-man, 10% 3-man, I have outcalled my partners on balks I'll bet 20-1.
My new hero...we are not worthy!!!!!!!!!

SanDiegoSteve Fri May 25, 2012 07:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius (Post 843433)
Davidson would have called it, and people would have been all over his a$$.

Don't get all offended, SDS, if you don't fit the bill, but the average professional umpire of amateur ball is ignorant, ch!cken$sh!t, or both when it comes to calling balks.

In my roughly 2200 game career of probably 90% 2-man, 10% 3-man, I have outcalled my partners on balks I'll bet 20-1.
No offense taken. I agree with your assessment. I would go one step further and say that a better than average percentage fit the bill, based on some partners and umpires I have observed over the years.

jwwashburn Fri May 25, 2012 10:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 843422)
The point of my post was to wonder what on earth we would all do without you around to point out the "errors" you perceive committed by your superiors.
I wonder what I would do without you pretending not be interested in these threads that you read.

mbyron Sat May 26, 2012 07:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 843452)
I wonder what I would do without you pretending not be interested in these threads that you read.
I know exactly what you'd do, because you keep doing it.

jwwashburn Sat May 26, 2012 09:32am
MB,

There have been several threads this year about MLB umpires. I posted one recently asking about mechanics-several people responded.

I posted this one and several people responded.

You obviously have an interest in this topic or you would never have clicked and posted.

Maybe you have a personal grievance with me? I have no idea. To my knowledge, we have never met.


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