Does run count
 

Major league rules VFW teener game: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, one out. Batter hits fly ball shallow center, fielder makes diving catch both runners take off. Catch is good now 2out.

Appeal is made on runner on 2nd leaving early and it was upheld, 3rd out. Does score of runner on 3rd count???

Yes, as long as the R3 hits the plate before the ball was caught at second.

And they don't appeal for a 4th out

-Josh

You can appeal a fourth out here but if it was for leaving early it would still be a time play and the run would score.

They'd be appealing R3 - that would kill the run if upheld.

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made
(1) by the batter runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or
(3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

None of these exceptions apply in this situation



7.10 Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when-(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged; "Retouch," in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.


Verdict....If runner touches plate before throw (appeal throw) arrives at 2nd and barring an appeal on another runner....score him.

Yep, didn't pay attention that R3 would be the next appeal.

The OP does not say R3 left early.

Appeal it anyway.

The Rat approach.

The normal approach.

Watch the players, not the umpires.

No mention of R3 leaving early. Appealing something you know didn't happen is the Rat approach. If that is normal for you, enough said.

The rat approach is appealing it and then complaining about how the umpires weren't watching the tag up since they "missed" the call.

I've never been a coach, but I guarantee this -- if I ever do coach, I *will* watch to see if a base umpire watches touches of bases and if he doesn't do his job (as so many around me where I live don't) I would appeal missed bases all day. It's one of my pet peeves with other umpires and I secretly hope coaches appeal on these guys cause maybe it would drive home how important it is to look at the touches of bases.

You need to watch more games.

Hardly. I've seen enough to know to know that this happens...frequently. To coaches it's part of the game. None the less, it's indicative of the way Rats think....appeal something that did not happen and let's see if we can get away with something.

It's no coincidence that it was posted by a coach.

Get in tune with how the game is played. You'll sleep better.

Wow another quip. As i said, I am "in tune" with how you and other rats play the game. I've seen it and your like for years. I will continue to see it and lose no sleep over it.

That doesn't make it any less rat like.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Get in tune with how the game is played. You'll sleep better.

+1

A little ridicoulous for a LL coach to tell MrUmpire to get in touch with the game. The game changes significantly with shaving age players. A coach who appeals things that don't happen all day long will not be around very long in my game.

I know Rich knows the rule book very well, but he is definitely acting like a RAT in this situation.

They can appeal all they like. I can signal "safe" all day long, too. Of course, once the coach decides to come out and argue after the fifth "safe," it's not going to take more than a few steps for him to get chunked.

Isn't there a LL board somewhere?

He's just as welcome here as anyone else. Do we have minimum membership requirements?

Computer and internet access. Prefer that the poster can type plain English but if the content is intriguing enough we'll make some exceptions.

I've found a couple rats by watching the touch at home out of the corner of my eye while facing (head and body) towards the field. (Only really works well with sunglasses. If the defense coach starts shouting from the dugout I know I've got a winner. When it's an assistant coach making the comment it's also a warning. Makes for a peaceful, friendly ball game after that.

Lot of input guys, I like that. I did fail to mention that both runners were guilty of leaving early. The center fielder had a long run and dove for ball, both took off before base ump gave call because fielder rolled over then came up showing ball in glove. Dase ump was in perfect position looking right thru 2nd at catch and runner. I was on plate and came up the line on fouls side and had good angle of 3rd baserunner and base ump . I honestly thought they were coming to 3rd for appeal and was kind of amused that they went 2nd instead.

Runner definitly crossed the plate because they took forever to tell the pitcher how to appeal, that was a bit hilarious but he got it done. Sometimes coaches forget the little things, eh.

You do know the runners can tag, and run when the CF first touches the ball. The time of the call has nothing to do with the runners leaving early.

Yes I know that.........after 30 years some things stick in the memory bank

Look, I have been a member of this board for over 11 years. I have always respected Mr. Ives' opinion. But when I hear "get in tune with how the game is played", or "you need to watch more games" to an official, he has chosen a side. This is an officials board last time I checked. Well at least that's what I signed up for. If I wanted a coaches forum, I would find one. So if Mr. Ives is going to be here, he should show some respect. We all know the game, some more than others, but that's why we're here, to learn.

I am sure in LL, Mr. Ives is GOD, or so it seems, but this is big boy baseball!

Sorry, but some of the things I have heard lately is ridiculous!

I don't feel Mr. Ives is a rat, but with some of the posts lately, I'm not sure. Winning at any cost comes to mind. Is that what LL is really about?

I am going to side with Steven Tyler on this one.:eek: (my shocked face) :)

You stated that you had a good angle of R3 and the base umpire. Q: Why would you be watching the base umpire? Wouldn't you line yourself up to see R3 and the touch of the ball F8? Could you please clear this up for us. Thanks.

It may not seem so, but I've been here since 2000. I'm not a fan of Rich's posts when he acts like umpires are a necessary evil, but there's no reason we need to stoop to his level, either.

I have worked a lot of Little League as well as a lot of HS and college baseball. There's no need to disparage any particular level.

The signs!

1. Many false prophets.
2. Wars and rumors of wars.
3. SDS agrees with Aerosmith on something.

It's the apocalypse, people!!!!

Yeah Steve I had a good look at the tag and across the peripheral vision of the base ump in "c" and the fielder 8 who was very close to the dirt, why 2b did not go after ball do not know but CF came charging amd made the play.....guys do we debate baseball or what....some seem to be going after each other, in fun I hope.

Nah, this the #1 sniping umpire forum on the Net. Didn't you get the memo? :p

I don't think there was a memo--just a clause in the will of McGriff's.

Agree!

where does runner belong
 

VFW ball major league rules: Runner on first ball hit to centerfield, fielder makes good catch at shoe tops and comes up throwing to get runner before return to first . Ball goes out of play and runner (a) touches back on first or (b) seeing ball go out of play goes onto third.

Second part of question: If scenario (b) once ball is put back in play can defense appeal that runner never tug up before advancing and would appeal be upheld.

Yes, the defense can appeal the runner leaving too soon when the ball is put back in play.

In both (a) and (b), the runner is awarded 3B; the award is based on the runner's position at the time of the throw and thus doesn't matter whether he was advancing or returning and whether or not he completed the retouch. But the runner must still properly retouch 1B or be in jeopardy of an appeal for leaving early on the caught fly.