Separating the hands after coming set

[Bfair]

I was in discussion with an ex-pitching coach of Texas Tech last night who had never heard of the "hands separating" as being a standard for the start of a pitch. (However, he was also not aware that it was legal to step and throw to a base from the windup stance under NCAA and OBR rules). We seemed to disagree on the following:

(THE BELOW IS ALL BASED UPON THE SET STANCE AND SET POSITON)

Evans states in the JEA 8.05(a):

A pitcher may use a motion common to both delivery of the pitch and delivery of a pick-off throw in some cases and this shall not be deemed a balk.

Certainly this satisfies the fact that a LHF1 is allowed to raise his free leg and then choose his motion to step either to the plate or to 1B---the raising of the leg being common to both actions of delivery and pickoff. However, I'd hardly think that separating the hands would be considered a common move unless done so after committing his step to 1B---otherwise, the pitcher is committed to delivering the pitch.

The BRD states that the time of pitch occurs when the pitcher separates his hands. While I cannot find this as current wording in any rulebook, I can verify from memory that it was once specifically stated by Fed. Additionally, I'd agree that it is applied today as a standard for judgment.

This leads me to ask, what if the free leg of the LHF1 raises, and prior to committing to step to either the base or to the plate, the pitcher separates his hands? Has the pitch been initiated, thus requiring the pitcher to now deliver to the plate since he has not yet started his step toward 1B? Or can the pitcher, after separating his hands, still choose to step toward 1B since his leg action (but not his step) initiated prior to the separating of the hands?

Obviously a pitcher can't make a pickoff throw without separating his hands, but I was of the belief that he could not separate his hands prior to his commitment to stepping toward a base, or if he did, he was then committed to delivering the pitch.

Can a pitcher from the set position separate his hands before initiating his step toward 1B (but after raising his leg) and still make a legal pickoff attempt to 1B?


Freix

[chris s]

This leads me to ask, what if the free leg of the LHF1 raises, and prior to committing to step to either the base or to the plate, the pitcher separates his hands? Has the pitch been initiated, thus requiring the pitcher to now deliver to the plate since he has not yet started his step toward 1B? Or can the pitcher, after separating his hands, still choose to step toward 1B since his leg action (but not his step) initiated prior to the separating of the hands?

Obviously a pitcher can't make a pickoff throw without separating his hands, but I was of the belief that he could not separate his hands prior to his commitment to stepping toward a base, or if he did, he was then committed to delivering the pitch.

Can a pitcher from the set position separate his hands before initiating his step toward 1B (but after raising his leg) and still make a legal pickoff attempt to 1B?


Freix



[/B][/QUOTE]

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8.05c and 8.05j seem to cover this, If I was a runner on first, I be watching the right leg. If he hangs it, you gotta balk, I think the rest can happen as long as there is no interruption in a pitch or throw to first....

[David B]

Steve,

I tried to do what you have stated and its almost impossible to separate without having already committed to either throw to the base or to home.


I have seen some lower level kids who separate the hands as part of their delivery to the plate, but I have never seen that in kids that shave.

FED doesn't state in their rules that separation is the time of the pitch unless I'm just missing something. It just talks about movement that commits them to pitch.

This is tough to visualize, so I'm thinking that it probably will not or is not going to happen very often.

Thanks
David

[thumpferee]

I am a lil' confused about the question posed.

If I'm not mistaken, delivery of a pitch must be done in a continuous motion. In throwing to a base, the pitcher must FIRST step toward the base, then throw.

Once the pitcher moves into the set from the stretch, placing his hand and glove together, he must come to a discernable stop and either pitch, step and throw to a base, or step off. Once he comes set and seperates his hands without doing any of the above, it is a balk.

If throwing to a base, a discernable stop is not necessary. But if he pitched without coming set, it is a balk.

Am I on the same page with you here?

[Gee]

Initiating the pitch (Committed to pitch) and time of pitch are two different concepts.

Time of pitch is identified at the same time as time of throw (pick) and is only significant if the pitcher pitches.

The LHF1 is only committed to pitch when his free foot passes the 45 degree line and not when he separates his hands.

Any time before the LHF1's free foot crosses that line, a throw to first is legal regardless of the time he separates his hands. The only thing separating his hands means to me is that he now must either pitch, throw or balk, as he has started his motion to do one or the other.

I have never seen, heard or read that it is a pitching violation if the pitcher separates his hands prior to committing himself to throwing (pick) or pitching. G.

[Edited by Gee on Jun 29th, 2003 at 09:15 AM]