Taking signs off the rubber.
 

Last Night. JV double header (FED rules). Game 2. 6th inning with starting pitcher still in game. Runners on 2nd & 3rd. I was at "C" position. Defensive coach (who had already proven himself to be a rat a couple of times) starts complaining (from the dugout) that the pitcher was taking signs off the rubber (not delaying or quick pitching or anything like that). He says I should call a balk. I said "coach, how do you know when he's taking his signs? Just keep quiet and lets play ball." I know 6-1-1 says "shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate" but specifies no penalty.

I'm sure this question has been discussed several times but I have a few questions:
1) Other than saying "don't do that", how should I handle the pitcher?
2) have any of you guys ever seen this infraction (if you could call it that) called?
3) What would you say to the rat/coach in the dugout?

1. Leave him alone unless he's quick pitching.
2. No, uh, yes by idiots
3. Shut up. (no don't say that)

1. When I'm on the bases, I usually let my partner handle that. I tend to start paying attention to the pitcher when he toes the rubber. If there is no infraction, there's nothing to call or say.
2. No. I may have told a catcher or two to slow him down.
3. I would have called time and ran over and called him out away from prying ears and told him a a polite way, "coach, I'm not gonna listen to you from 150ft away. If you have a question for us, we have time between innings. If we see an infraction, we'll call it, OK". Then pat him on his back and run away. (maybe not)

First time: "He's OK, coach." I'm not holding a rules clinic, nor arguing about interpretations. I might add a sentence of explanation if he gets off his butt and asks nicely.

Second time: "I said he's OK, coach, now that's enough."

Third time: "Coach you're restricted/ejected."

You found a coach who has a little rules knowledge. And we all know about having a little knowledge.

Read the penalty section in the rule book, and it's calls for a balk to be called.

I don't agree with it because it says all pitching regulations begin when the pitcher toes the rubber at the first of the pitching rule regulations.

FED 6-1-1: "He shall take his sign from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate."

The only penalty specified for all of article 1 is a balk/ball for an illegal pitch. Since this provision does not mention a pitch, it is not subject to that penalty. Hence, there is no penalty for this "infraction."

The purpose of the rule is to prevent quick pitches. If he's not quick pitching, he's OK. Don't pick boogers.

I am only addressing NFHS Baseball Rules.

Let us review the fundamentals.

1) When is F1 an Infielder and when is F1 a Pitcher? Answer: F1 is an IF when he is not in contact with the Pitcher's Plate, and he is a Pitcher when he is intentionally in contact with the Pitcher's Plate.

2) When are the Pitching Rules in Effect? Answer: When F1 is intentionally in contact with the PPLT.

Therefore, when F1 is an IF (meaning he is not intentionally in contact with the PPLT), he can take signs from any one, any where. When F1 is the P, he shall take or simulate taking his signs from F2 while in contact with the PPLT.

The purpose NFHS R6-S1-A1 is to insure that the P does not quick pitch.

MTD, Sr.

Thanks for playing.

There is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber. I don't know what you are reading, but it is not any of the 3 baseball codes in existence today (OBR, NCAA, FED).

I really enjoyed this thread...

I don't know the exact wording or section of the pitching rules, but the penalty phase, possibly 6-1-3, of the pitching rules says any violation of 6-1-
or 6-1-2, , says failure to do so results in a balk being called, blah, blah, blah.

Like I've said many times I believe it paints with too broad of a brush. I don't look for it, and I certainly have never called it. And I am talking about FED.

Feel free to argue among your selfs.

I think this thread affirms my initial opinion that if the coach was chirping at me about this he is a RAT.

But Steve:

The infraction is: F1, while as the P, does NOT take his sign (or simulate taking his sign) from F2 while intenionally in contact with the Pitcher's Plate.

Read my first post in this thread about the fundementals.

MTD, Sr.

Read 6-1-3. I think that is the one that addresses the penalty phase for 6-1-1 and 6-1-2.

That's the umpires job.

Me too! I love it when somebody keeps arguing even when they've been proven wrong. Happens to the best of us sometimes.:p

Steve:

What is the penalty for a quick pitch?

MTD, Sr.

Prove where I'm wrong. It's right in the rule book.

I'm not arguing. I think the wording in the rule book contradicts itself to begin with anyway.

Steven Tyler: Read this post!
 

Steve:

I agree that the rule is not well written, but what I have written above is the correct ruling. A former member of the NFHS Baseball Rules Committee has told me so. The intent of the rule is to keep the Pitcher from just engaging the Pitcher's Plate and then immediately start his pitching motion.

MTD, Sr.

I understand except for the two goofs who were trying to stir things up.

I like this thread a lot
 

:d

Love this thread. My favorite so far.:D

ozzy,

You might want to reread your NCAA rule book.

(I'm guessing Jim and Kyle had a bet who could get the dumbest rule into the book. Kyle probably thought he had a sure thing and Jim outfoxed him.)

JM