what would you call?
 

Here is the situation...Jr high level...I was asked this from another umpire..

R3 is stealing on the pitch (sqeeze play)..the catcher takes position infront of the plate before the pitch crosses the plate ( never giving the batter a chance at the ball), R3 scores due to the catcher dropping the ball....what would you call...I already got different answers from other umpires...:eek:

If the pitcher didn't step off before throwing home, that would be a catcher's balk.

Catcher's obstruction (FED), Batter to 1B, R3 scores.

I also have catchers balk as well....runner scores and the batter remains at bat...
You can say catchers obstuction, but then you would penalize the defense twice...runner scores and now the batter goes to 1st?

No balk under HS rules.

Agree!

That's obstruction, and due to the fact R3 was stealing on the obstruction, score 1, batter gets 1.

In response to mandotheman, you are not penalizing the defense twice. The defense erred on a possible squeeze play. By not penalizing the obstruction on the possibilities of an offensive advantage, you actually penalize the offense.

Really, Gracie??

Calling a balk because the catcher left the front of the box on this would be a stretch. The catcher can leave the box at TOP so more than likely he was in the box. CO is the correct rule to apply here.

8-1-1-e-1 plus the definition of squeeze

On CO only runners attempting to advance (inncluding on a squeeze) are advanced. Others only advance if forced.

Except for FED, it's a balk because the rule says it's a balk.

Don't we have both? A "catcher's balk" and obstruction by the catcher?

So if the catcher reaches across the plate and obstructs the batter on a squeeze you are going to call CO but if he steps on home plate in the same situation you are going to call a balk?
The criteria for that balk BTW allows the catcher out of the box right after time of pitch. This is not a balk most umpires look for. It could be called with catchers setting up for outside pitches, pitchouts and even catchers that extend one leg out to get lower but the TOP criteria usually is met in those sits.

So we move all runners up 1 and award BR 1st?

On a balk, only the runners are moved up. What about B2 who's opportunity for a hit (bunt single) was taken away?

Obstruction awards the stealing runner and batter a base and others if forced, which seems to be a more advantageous penalty for the defenses error.

I didn't think NFHS used the term "catcher's balk"? I don't have my book:(

To those advocating for a balk here: the OP does not state that F2 left the box before F1 released the pitch.

Without more info in support of the balk, it sounds like garden-variety catcher INT/OBS to me.

If you have a balk the ball becomes immediately dead is the reason you can't have obstruction in FED. The play didn't happen. The batter doesn't go to first, all runners advance one base. Simple as that.

Balk=Immediate dead ball in FED. No play takes place.

Good point.

It's not release of pitch; it's time of pitch 1-1-3.

Hard to believe that the catcher was out front before or as the pitcher started his delivery from either the set or windup.

Out of curiosity, did the batter attempt to hit the ball?

Are we gonna get an official interp? :confused:

I'm going to the archives. I know there was a debate over this years ago.

Found this
 

I think the J/R gives a pretty good description.



It is defensive (or catcher's) interference if:

1 The batter or his bat contacts the catcher during a swing or bunt at a pitch.

a) e.g. one out, hit and run. The batter swings at a curve ball and strikes the mitt of a catcher who is not crouched and preparing to throw.

b) e.g. a batter swings belatedly on a fastball and smacks the mitt of a crouched catcher.

2. The catcher is on or forward of the tip of home plate (or "on fair territory") to get the pitch and prevents the batter's opportunity to swing at or bunt such pitch.

Examples:

a. In the windup position, the pitcher begins his motion to pitch and R3 steals. The catcher springs from his crouch onto fair territory and catches the pitch as the batter strides, but does not swing.

b. R3, suicide squeeze. The catcher catches the pitch forward of home plate while the batter maintains his position, partially squared to bunt.


However, it is not defensive (or catcher's) interference if the batter:

1. Steps outside the batter's box and he or his bat strikes the catcher.

2. Throws his bat at, and strikes, the catcher.

3. Uses his bat to intentionally strike the catcher on foul territory (tries to hit the catcher versus the pitch).

4. Swings, but does not strike the catcher, who is on foul territory.

5. Completely gives up his opportunity to swing or bunt at a pitch.

6. Accidentally strikes the catcher with his bat during a practice swing while the pitcher prepares to pitch.

Penalizing Defensive (Catcher's) Interference

Once there is defensive interference, the ball is not dead. All continuous action is allowed to occur. If every runner and the Batter-Runner acquires his advance base during continuous action, the interference is disregarded. When continuous action ends, and the umpire determines that a runner or Batter-Runner has not acquired his advance base, the ball becomes dead, and the interference is then enforced as follows:

a. The Batter-Runner is awarded first base.

b. All sequential runners are awarded their advance base.

c. Any runner stealing on the pitch is awarded his advance base.

d. Runners who are not sequential and were not stealing must return to their TOP base.

However, the offensive manager has the option to accept the result of the continuous action rather than have the interference enforced, Such manager must indicate to the umpire his choice of the result of continuous action; the umpire does not offer such an option.


Tim.

"d. Runners who are not sequential and were not stealing must return to their TOP base."

Unless the CI was during a squeeze or steal of home where 7.07 (OBR) occurs.

I would say let's not mix FED and OBR in this discussion but I just did.

FED Case Play:

8.3.1 SITUATION B

R1 is on third and R2 is on second. R1 breaks from third in an attempted suicide squeeze play. As B3 attempts to bunt, F2 touches tip of bat or steps across home plate, catches the ball and tags R1. R2 remains on second.

RULING: Catcher obstruction. The umpire awards B3 first base and R1 home. Since R2 was not attempting to steal or was forced, he remains on second.

You mean 1-1-4.

I was thinking of OBR for some reason. 4.03a

Yes, I was trying to type 1-1-4 but typed 1-1-3 for some reason. Thank you.

Hopefully, Bretman's caseplay will put an end to this thread. Thank you too.