1-Umpire mechanics question
 

Situation:
Bases Loaded, 1 out. I'm PU, working alone.

Batter hits a sharp line drive to the right of F6. F6 takes a quick step to his right, and gets a glove on it enough to knock the ball down. I take my step out towards 3B in foul territory. F6 recovers the ball, throws to F4 for the force at second. F4 throws to F5, while I move about 5 steps up towards 3B to cover the tag play. F5 tags out R2. Inning over.

Head coach, on his way back to the dugout, asks me if F3's run counts or not.

Gulp.

Obviously, if R3 had touched home plate prior to the tag on R2, the run counts, and if R3 hadn't crossed home place prior to the tag, then the run would not count.

The problem is, because of my positioning at the time of the tag (about halfway between 3rd and home, about 2 steps into foul territory, looking directly at 3B), I had no idea about R3's status at the time of the tag.

So, my question to all of you... where should I have been to get the best look at all of this action? (And unfortunately, "hire a BU" isn't an acceptable answer, as I don't get to make that decision).

The important thing here is to have awareness of the situation and know you might have a time play to rule on. I haven't worked 1-man in a long time and I haven't looked at a manual on it, but my instinct tells me to get to where you need to be to get an angle on a call on the bases, but if you have a time play possibility, you need to be making a call and taking a look back at the plate to give yourself a chance to get this call right. IMO, the benefit of the doubt goes to the offense and you have to KNOW that the runner didn't cross the plate before the 3rd out.

When working by yourself you do the best that you can. In a time play situation you need to position yourself to make the call and quickly locate the runner going home. Priority one make the call on the base and then locate the runner. If he looks like he scored count the run if not don't. If anyone *****es say if you want this called properly get me a partner. I've even gone this far on long distant calls when a Coach complains. Coach you could be right but from 90 feet away he looked out/safe to me. I've found that if you hustle and get out from behind the plate to make calls you have less trouble.

angle
 

I would suggest backing up, towards 3rd base dugout to widen your view of field. In a 1 man senario, you do the best you can and make a call. Coach was just trying to shake you up a bit and start you questioning your calls. Don't fall for it.

Make a best guess. It's all you can do. Tolerate little arguing afterwards.

I had the hardest play (that I can remember) to call on the bases on Sunday and we were working 2-man. D3 college, R1+R3, 1 out. Corners in. Line smash to third, F5 backhand catches the liner and dives for R3 sliding back in. I'd love to see a video. I got one step from the B position and saw a hand get in while F5 was still lunging and I called R3 safe. Not a word from anyone, but I really have no clue if I really got it right.

What Age Group?

Yes you could have rotated up to 3rd base line extended, however, the team didn't do the expected 6-4-3 double play. They instead went for the 6-4-5 DP with a tag play. However, this is not an expected position based on the potential for a pulled foot, swipe tag that may occur on a 6-4-3 DP.

Which coach is asking - Offense or Defensive?

Use your logic to deduce if R3 scored. How?

1) Did R3 go by in your peripheral vision between home and 3rd?
2) Was there sufficent time for R3 to reach the plate prior to the tag play based on your distance from Home Plate, and the tiem you saw him in your vision?
3) Do you believe that if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it still makes a sound?:eek:

As for telling the cheap *** coach that not hiring a 2nd ump is Crap.:mad: Tell the frillin' truth. "Coach, that's a 50 dollar call.":p:p:p:p

Boys JV... two pretty decent teams (with pitchers who could actually locate the strike zone, which doesn't always happen in JV).

The offensive coach asked about it on his way back to the dugout. Luckily, he was one of the nicest coaches I've ever worked a game for, and didn't complain a bit when I said that I wasn't sure if he scored, so we weren't going to count the run. (In fact, not counting the run was actually his idea).

In retrospect, the run almost definitely scored... R2 slowed down on the way to 3B, so F5 actually caught the ball at 3B and took 2 steps to apply the tag. I just wish I would've been able to have definite knowledge.

And yes, I definitely was prepared to pull out the "If you want that call, hire a second umpire" card if I needed to... fortunately it wasn't necessary.

In 1-man, angle is FAR more important than distance. With bases loaded, I'm initially moving left to clear the pitcher from my sight of the possible play at 2nd, and let the play develop, but with a runner coming home, I'm staying WAY closer to home than I would otherwise, and never going into fair territory. Sounds like the advice above - backup toward the dugout to expand your peripheral vision - would have worked after the play at 2nd.

Awareness is critical here - being aware of the possible time play once the force went to 2nd and not then to 1st (weird play ... why was 3rd base a better play for the 2nd baseman than 1st base would have been???), you've got to watch the play at third, but the instant you see the 3rd out (even before signalling it), you're looking home.

Incidentally - the answer to the coach should have been simply, "Yes, she scored."

One good thing - next time this play develops, your instinct will take your head to the plate. You won't miss this one again.

mb, I believe you have the mechanic I'm describing incorrect. 3BL is 3rd base line extended into foul territory, and 1BL is 1st base line extended into foul territory.

The defense tried the un-orthodox 6-4-5 (Short-Second-Third) tag play DP, instead of the simpler 6-4-3 (Short-Second-First) DP.

If you're 3BL, you're not in a bad position for seeing both, but if you float out 1BL and open up, you're not gonna see both no matter how cross eyed you can make yourself from outside the dirt circle of Home plate. If you can, then your potentially an example of how humans evolved from fish with your eyes on the side of your head instead of on the front.:D

I know, I've heard the story how a very prominent umpire/instructor met his second or third wife who was Blond, by describing the eyes in the back of his head and how he could see the number of fingers on his hand when he looked the other way.

I see. I think, however, I'd stick with moving up the 3BL (not extended... toward 3rd). First, that's our natural first inclination anyway on a hit ball; second - the more likely play here is at 2nd or 3rd; third - moving to 3BL gives you a horrible angle at 1st base, a possible first play and likely 2nd play.

Besides - I don't think sticking with EITHER BLE gives you enough separation from the pitcher to make a call at 2nd base. You need to get up a foul line, then (in this case) back toward the dugout to expand your periphery.

First of all [and no disrespect intended to you], let me put on record that I hold the concept of "1-man mechanics" to be an oxymoronic joke. With only one umpire on a 90-foot field, you are, of necessity, making s#!t up as you go, mechanics-wise. Get where you need to be to see as much of what you need to see as possible, while remaining in a sufficiently flexible position to react to events as they develop. And take ABSOLUTELY NO static from the cheap SOB coaches who won't hire a second set of eyes and legs.

-<[/Rant off]>-

That said, I have the following suggestions:

A] contrary to all your instincts and proper TWO-MAN mechanics, react to this sitch by moving INTO the infield toward the home-side of the mound. From here you have improved your distance toward the likely 1st play at 2d base, and also improved your angle for following plays on either corner. 'Course, if they try to cut down R3 at the plate, you may eat horsehide for supper, but at least you will be looking into the play at the plate [assuming you are not wearing the ball], rather than up its azz - which is where you'll be if you go up 3bl in foul territory. AND, moving in this direction allows you to "open your field of view" more than [realistically] you can in foul territory, increasing the chance that you will see R3 cross the plate, or at least know how far away he was when you turned your attention exclusively to the developing 3d-out play.

B] Rather than not counting the run because you are not SURE R3 scored in time, I would advocate the opposite analysis: score the run unless you are SURE the 3d out came first. By all means, use the techniques and secondary evidence suggested by others to "catch" the R3 who lollygags his way down the baseline; but in most cases, R3 is off like a shot and hauling freight, with a substantial lead-off into the bargain. If R3 DIDN'T score in time, he probably tripped over his shoelace and face-planted short of home plate, where you will find him when you "GLANCE at the Runner(s)" after "watch(ing) the ball". If when you look back at the plate after calling the third out, R3 is halfway to his dugout high-fiveing his teammates, it is very likely he was across the plate before the 3d out was made.

Wouldn't R2 be hauling just as much tail AND with a bigger lead-off? I know he has to slow a bit to slide, but I can't imagine R3 touching the plate is an automatic given in this situation.

Guys:

R3 will ALWAYS (defined as 99 44/100%) score on this play. Just count the run & sleep well.

Just my 2 cents - moving into the infield during a play on the infield is a horrible idea, and you'll find yourself dodging thrown balls, avoiding players moving to back up somewhere, and having half of the play develop behind you.

Just a note regarding being more abrupt with coaches regarding what you did or did not see due to there only being 1 of you --- be sure you are positive the reason you are alone is the coaches' fault. Seems to me that the majority of my 1-man games resulted from a flaky partner, and not cheap schools or leagues. Also, don't forget that YOU accepted this game.

The REAL answer is "hire a BU" when working solo you cannot see everything like all runners touching all the bases. It's virtually impossible.

Let's take a look at the events

1. sharp line drive to the right of F6. F6 takes a quick step to his right, and gets a glove on it enough to knock the ball down.

Since it's a line shot R3 has to freeze (you said 1 out bases juiced) R3 now sees the ball on the ground and takes off.

2. F6 recovers the ball, throws to F4 for the force at second. Unless you have a REAL slow runner at third, R3 should be at least half way or more to home plate.

3. F4 throws to F5, while I move about 5 steps up towards 3B to cover the tag play. F5 tags out R2. F4 receives the throw from

F6 and now has to throw to F5.


Conclusion: Unless the runner at third was slow I would score the run. Also, I agree with another poster, when solo I would go to the mound area or what's commonly referred to as the "library area" to make most calls.

FWIW I hope they pay you a FEE plus 1/2 and as the weather gets hotter they should hire at least 2.

Pete Booth

Thanks for all the suggestions, it's given me a lot to think about.

Re: why go 6-4-5 instead of 6-4-3: both R1 and R2 "Froze" when the ball was hit, and didn't start running again until the ball was clearly on the ground... BR was sprinting immediately on contact, so by the time F6 recovered the ball and threw to F4, BR was about 2/3 of the way to 1st and R2 was about halfway between 2nd and 3rd... so the easier play was actually on R2.

RE: hiring two... believe me, we've tried. All of these schools claim they don't have the money for it... and I believe about 15% of them, although I don't believe it in the case of either school that was playing in this game.

Hell, last night I had a minor sh-tstorm on the part of a coach in a 1-umpire game after an attempted pickoff play on R3 after a pitch. (talk about having NO angle whatsoever). A quick "Coach, I need a second set of eyes to make that call" didn't necessarily calm him down, but it did get him to shut up and retreat back to his dugout.

You are a man with an impossible task met with unreasonable expectations in a land of quandary. Have fun out there. Tomorrow will be a better today! ;)

Yet another incarnation of our favorite troll, I'm guessing.

Give him the benefit of the doubt - he's not trolled yet. Besides ... can't be the other guy, he spelled quandary correctly.

I'd put good money on it, the posting style is exactly the same.

Exactly. And I may have a "new" account, but trust me I was around for the previous incarnations of the same troll and the posting style is identical.

New account? What was the old account? Any account? :p My bad, let's get back to officiating! :mad:

I think it's clear I was wrong...

With the ball hit to the right of F6 [OP], I'm guessing the coach's admonition: "Ball hit to this side, make sure it's through" is keeping R2 closer to 2d, at least at first and until the ball is thrown to 2d for the force on R1. And, retreating [or at least pulling up] so that the fielder has to take "a couple steps" toward 2d to make the tag - still more time for an unimpeded R3 to make it home.

So - automatic? No. But a whole lot more likely than not. Score the run unless you are SURE he was tardy.

Who is the other guy you were referring to?

Trolling seems to have two definitions around here.

New guy=troll, I suppose.

Seriously? Where do you have BU go/stand during plays in the infield when you have a full crew? While I agree there is some danger of needing to avoid a throw from 2d to home, there is no other situation I can think of where moving inside TO THE HOME SIDE OF THE MOUND could possibly put you in anyone's [or anything's] way. As for part of the play developing behind you, see "1-man {!!HA!!} mechanics" in my previous post - that is gonna happen, no matter what you do; so at least improve both angle and distance to 3/4 of the places you need to see. Actually, it's more like 4/5 improvement, 'cause if there is a play at the plate and you are halfway up 3bl and wide to "open up" the field of view, you are likely to have no view at all of what happens thru R3's backside.

OP stated this was assigned one-man, so we can forget penance for our worthless no-show partner; and The Game was accepted because the assigner needs/ expects someone to take it, and usually the guy who gets offered this kind of game isn't given much choice. Accepting a one-man assignment does not obligate one to tolerate whinging by the people who decided to forego the expense of a 2d umpire when the natural and predicable consequences of their parsimony bite them in the azz; or to be more tolerant or even appologetic for the limitations of our "One-man {I repeat, !!HA!!} mechanics".
.

He is not new, he has been here before under many different names and he may not have trolled yet but he will.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder http://forum.officiating.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
Give him the benefit of the doubt - he's not trolled yet. Besides ... can't be the other guy, he spelled quandary correctly.


Now I get it. Only fair, the new guy has to seek and gain acceptance into the Club! OK, fair enough! I'll try my best. I always do! ;)

Then why would you ever go into fair territory with runners in scoring position? I've worked a ton of one man games over the years, and that's not the place you want to be.
Exactly. You can call everything you need to call from foul territory when runners are in scoring position. On first to 3rd, I'm still at the cutout at 3rd waiting on that runner, but I'm getting out of Dodge if there is going to be action at home plate.

No, old guy troll with new troll guy user name=troll.

If you don't accept one-man games here, you won't work much ball unless it's Varsity HS or adult ball. No JV, no Pony, no Colt, No Palomino, no Sr. LL, no LL, no Big League, no nothin'. All youth ball here is one-man.

Let's give GROUPthink a chance. :mad:

That is funny! No, we aren't talking about him. He is a real poster, not a poser.

When I've had to work one man, I've always tried to work from around the pitcher's mound. From there, I just try to follow the baseball. I try to be on top of some plays when possible. Not much you can do. I've never had a peep out of a coach doing 1-man.

You need to learn how to let things go. You take the bait too easy.

I'd be done then. No way I'm working 1-man. I'd find something better to do with my life.

One-man JV pays $72. I'll do it. Pretty good JV out here. Like many places' varsity.

One slight criticism to you 6 years ago, and it set you off on a vendetta against me and BigUmp that still exists today, so don't tell me to let things go. Practice what you preach.

I agree. It's not worth the aggravation for me.

Steve, what's the rationale for only using one at JV? Lack of umpires? Money?

Here at least it's lack of money I'm pretty sure. Most Sophomore and Freshman games pay $57 around here for one umpire. The one conference I do that has 2 umpires pays $51, so it's a bit less for that benefit of 2 umpires. Most coaches talk about how they only have 2 or 3 game balls because their budget doesn't allow anymore. We must be broke here!

Couldn't care about the $ or the quality of ball. I'd be done working 1-man and would work only games where I'd have 2 even if it meant I didn't work.

Never mind that if the quality is what you say, the game *needs* a second umpire.

Agreed. I am at the point where I hate working solo be that basketball, softball or baseball. I don't even like working JV football games with three (which is the standard out here).

School budget restrictions. It has been one-man for JV in most conferences since before I started umpiring in 1986. It isn't for a lack of umpires, we have a surplus of those.

What do varsity umpires get paid?

I have no idea as to what you are talking about. You pick too many boogers. It doesn't even matter whose nose it belongs to.

You have a nice day.

So that's why you troll!. My man, have you thought about the claghorn instead? :confused:

Naturally.

In your twilight years, as you devolve from man to man-with-cane, you need the love, care and assistance of many others to see through your craft. :o

I am never offered 1 man games and would not accept. The few times I worked 1 man it was because partner did not show and both coaches agreed to go 1 man at plate meeting.

Last time it happened was about 4 or 5 years ago. I get a call from assigner at 2 PM, asked if I could do plate at a game nearby at 4. He did not tell me who partner was and I forgot to ask. At 330, no partner, at 350 no partner, so I start to plate. At plate meeting I tell both coaches I did not have this game until 2 PM, I don't know who my partner is, or where he is, but we have 3 choices. 1, we wait till he gets here, and I don't know when that will be. 2, we start with 1 ump and when he shows up he jumps in and if he don't show we finish with 1 ump. 3, we all go home. They both opted for 2. The game was 2-1 in 1:20 and the home team wrote me a game fee check for 1.5 times normal. The winning run scored on a come backer to pitcher with two out and man on 3b, instead of throwing home to get the advancing runner he lobbed one over to 1b for the 2nd out.

In 1 man you do the best you can and if the bases were loaded on a play I would not leave the plate area.

The only games that are assigned 1 man around here are coach pitch, or machine pitch, worked by umpires who don't shave.

First of all, wow, must be great to have HS and youth leagues that can afford (or aren't cheap) to have two umpires. I have worked hundreds of solo games. Anything from LL on up to JV high school is one-man Sam, except in the most affluent of leagues.

Second, did you mean there was one out and the pitcher threw to 1st for the 2nd out?

Yes, thanks. He threw to 1b for the 2nd out, allowing the winning run to score. It was in the 5th inning I think, but it turned out to be the winning run.

I have lived in 3 different parts of the state in my coaching/umpire years and all youth leagues I have seen have 2 umpires except for machine/coach pitch. Now I wonder what they pay in Southern California, because some of these youth leagues don't pay much, some more than others. All middle school and up have 2 umpires.

One of the best games I ever worked was one man at the JV level. It was about 100 degrees outside, and I forgot my indicator (proof that you really don't need one). If you want to work only 2 man or more, that is your choice. I won't turn a game down just because its a one man assignment.

They pay you pretty well, IMO, when you are by yourself. You make more than with a partner, for sure. They usually pay right around a fee and a half. JV HS isn't that good though, it's only about $20 more than 2-man, at $72.

Sounds more like indentured servitude to me. HS spend millions of sports facilities and they can't afford a second umpire to get a game called accurately? :mad:

Idiotic. Where I am it's $40 per umpire for JV (2-man) -- just $8 more than SD pays for 1 umpire. Why pay good money for JV umpires anyway? Umpires should have some incentive to work their way to the varsity level. *Those* umpires should be paid the good money.

Because they are men, men of the future of baseball!

"Good money" is what in your terms? $50 per arbiter per game? :confused:

Nobody would work a JV game with a partner for $40 here. That's the difference. LL Majors pays $40 here. JV is $54 per man last I checked. And quite a few varsity level umpires, like myself, volunteer to do the one-man JV because of the extra money involved. It's not people working their way up that get all the games, or unqualified umpires, it's the people willing to work JV that get them. But like I said, our JV here is as good as varsity in some areas. The ball here is pretty solid. JV games aren't the joke like I guess they are some places. They take it very seriously, have stands packed like varsity crowds, and expect good umpires. The coaches and players are very serious as well. They put good umpires on these games BECAUSE there is only going to be one, and he'd better dang well know what he's doing, or they'll eat him alive.

That doesn't make sense. If the baseball is so good (which I'm not disputing), then it deserves 2 umpires. If they want varsity umpires working JV, then equalize the fees between JV and varsity.

The difference between JV and varsity fees is not very much for two-man. The difference is that one-man JV pays much more than two-man varsity, which makes it attractive to some umpires. The schools save a ton on umpire fees this way, while the umpire working the JV game makes more than he would on a two-man varsity game.

The schools do not make the fee schedule, the San Diego Chapter of the California Interscholastic Federation does. Each conference decides whether it wants one or two umpires on its JV and Frosh games. It just so happens that the most competitive conferences always choose one-man. It's a school district budget thing, I guess. The umpire association has no input on the HS fee structure.