Are you calling a Balk?
 

Mediocre Varsity teams. Score not important. R3. Pitcher is in windup and steps on to the plate with both hands together. After taking sign and setting ball in glove he removes hand about 4 inches out of glove, returns it to his glove and begins his motion. Coach insists pitcher has balked. We move on.

One week later, same team , same coach ahead by 9 runs in 7th inning and everyone yells for pitcher to step off. Lo and behold he does, but not with the pivot foot. He looks over and says "that is two you owe me". I tell him after the game that both cases were technical balks and he says " a balk is a balk." We agreed to disagree and moved on.

I know the differences, are you calling these?

How else is the kid going to learn? It will also stop the other coach from griping - he's less apt to gripe in a game he's winning easily, but what is he's losing and you ignore the balks?

JJ

Varsity. Balk it. That's the only way they learn. Kind of like speeding tickets.

You can start calling it now, or wait 'til the losing team puts up a 9-spot in the last inning after you passed on it because of the big lead. Your choice.

1. Call the balks.

2. Tell the coach that if he is counting, he'll be in the parking lot by the time he gets to 4.

Taking the ball out of the glove and not completing the pitching motion is not a technical balk. It's a balk. Any movement once the pitcher has assumed the windup position other than a step backward with the pivot foot commits the pitcher to pitch (FED). Anything else is a balk. When the pitcher removed his hand (with or without the baseball) from his glove, he effectively started his motion and the runner was free to take off and steal, but was held in check by the illegal deception.

Thank you for your advise on the balk but, I don't need to bark out commands or make threating statements to let the coach know I am in charge or satisfy my ego. I know I have the final say and there is no need to flaunt it.

Nice point. I see more than a few umpires think it is good form to instruct the dugout from afar when a mere shake of the head or palm shown their way will suffice. Opening your mouth to the team usually opens the door to trouble. Silence can never be misquoted.

I think by now you know not to put on a balk clinic but to simply call the balks you saw. In my experience, the first balk call is usually all it takes. Good luck this season.

Thanks Mike, it works for some and that is their perogative. I have just never found it necessary (unless the situation needed), to let everyone know who is in charge on the field. I know it and that is all there is to it.

As far as the balks, I agree that it can be a learning process by calling all of them, whether technical or mechanical, its discretion and I continue to refine even that, if I think it will make me a better official. Not just because some has told me too. There are often some different schools of thought on it and I was just trying get some more opinions from others.

Thanks

Better to have them learn it in a 9-0 game then to learn it in a 0-0 game that becomes 0-1.

You giving him 4 strikes?

Better to have one side ticked at you because you enforced a rule as it should be enforced than to have one side ticked at you because you're letting stuff slide.

One side is going to be ticked off no matter what, but I can live with that if I'm doing my job the right way.

You can't read?

I will continue to argue that neither one were technical. The runner in each case is illegally deceived by both taking the hand out of the glove in the former and by stepping off with the free foot in the latter. In each case, the runner is put at a HUGE disadvantage. What would you have done in Play #2 if after the pitcher stepped off, the runner decided to steal and the pitcher threw him out at the base? Go back and say "Oh, that was a balk, by the way?" Just wondering what your reasoning is for considering either of these balks "technical," when each one has effectively killed the runner's chances of a stolen base.

The proper mechanic is to immediately signal a delayed dead balk.

That's pretty funny!

No one said anything about "barking" or "flaunting". I will warn coaches about announcing their "count" of what "I owe them." If you feel that requires barking or flaunting, look inward. I don't.

Have not had a problem with a quiet warning at any level, HS through D-1. But thanks for your input.

Delayed dead balk signal? Huh?

In this case he delayed it to, well next season, maybe?? In my humble opinion, we can't pick and choose which rules to enforce and which ones not to. If you see a balk, call it. If appropriate, give a quick explanation of what you saw. I have always been against not calling certain rules. We always hear, 'its too early in the season to call that, blue'...

When I first began umpiring three decades ago, I issued ultimatums like the one you suggested too. I no longer feel compelled to do so. If it works for you, stick with it.

I've managed a career for 32 years that has included regionals using warnings when necessary. I'm happy for you that you don't warn. Thanks again for your input. I'll file it appropriately.

What does the skill level have to do with it?

For the record, I would balk 13-14 year olds on those.

Accidentally dropping the ball is also a balk. You calling those?

Rita

Yawn. Umpires are not supposed to be antagonists. Sadly, you continue to display that trait.

Obviously you do not comprehend the meaning of "silence cannot be misquoted". I would love to see the report where you describe your ejection after such an amateurish line in the sand.

Forgive me, but I don't get where "quietly warn" equates with "barking out commands."

I'm not going to let a coach repeatedly yell out "That's 2 you missed" either. I respect the coach's job and seek to never show up or embarrass him, however I expect the same consideration from so-called professionals. That doesn't change whether the participants are college players or Little Leaguers.

Thank you all, for your input about the balks.

For the record, no one was deceived in either case but, I understand where you are coming from Steve. Everyone knew on the ball field that the pitcher was stepping off because the coach yelled it out. I use the word technical because NO ONE was deceived on either of these. Again they were mediocre teams. One can find fault with selective enforcement of the rules but, we all know that in any given game and because of ambiguity in the rules, it happens. I have called these in more competive levels.

As far as comments from the coach, as shown, there are different approaches on how one handles them, in officiating their contests. That is something each one of us has to deal with on the field and after the games if applicable.

Have a good season all.

Thanks again, ever so much. Really. I have no idea how I ever managed a career with never having a protest over a call or complaint filed over game management without your amazing tips. Thanks to your input I know understand that when one does not do things as you suggest, it simply means that one is wrong.

Please, keep those tips and tidbits coming. I look forward to your advice daily. I know of no one else who so freely shares their superior knowledge. Really. Thank you.

There's a particular umpire/author with a long history of passing on "technical balks" when "nobody is deceived." He's been wrong, IMO, the entire time.

Just call them when you see them.

I agree. I would have dumped the coach when he said "That's two you owe me." Problem solved. No misinterpreting "You're gone." He was lucky Mr. Umpire was in a good mood and only warned him.

Not all balks require deception.

No Sh#t Sherlock.

Don't take this personnal however, in all your 32 years of experience and expertise officiating, it just sticks out like a sore thumb, the one thing you just haven't mastered is, when to shut your trap. You don't always have to have the last say, even if YOU think you do.

Sorry you're so easily offended, but when you write, as a defense, "For the record, no one was deceived in either case but, I understand where you are coming from Steve. Everyone knew on the ball field that the pitcher was stepping off because the coach yelled it out. I use the word technical because NO ONE was deceived on either of these" it stands out "like a sore thumb" that you may not understand the rule.

If in fact, you do understand the rule and have chosen to not enforce it, my apologies.

A runner being deceived is not a criteria for calling or not calling the balk. Again, as said repeatedly, "see it, call it". If you see it and ignore it because you choose not to enforce the balk then that is your issue. Don't rationalize your decision.

I would balk 9-10 year old Mustang Leaguers as well. They are balks, and as such put the offense at an unfair disadvantage, which is the reason for the rule.

I would too, if I umpired games with balks at that age level.

Mean old lady that I am, I made a 10 year old girl cry yesterday calling illegal pitches. But I was thanked for calling them afterwards. Parents who care, know their kids aren't going to learn if it isn't called.

I think it's a matter of respect for the players and the game.

Rita

No wonder you get all the big games. If anyone can put third graders in their place, it's you.

With each post, you remind me and this board of a spoiled child who was caught behaving badly.

You profess endless umpiring knowledge but cannot fathom that drawing a line in the sand, per your suggestion, is a bad idea. Your advice is akin to stating, "One more word from you and you're done." That is called baiting. I know of no professional school that teaches such, nor any credible umpire who embraces that tact. Meanwhile, I suggest what every professional umpiring school currently does - umpire silence can never be misquoted. You seem to believe that I am alone in this belief. That arrogance is stupifying. You criticized another but cannot accept the same. Your post games must be amazingly frustrating for partners.

For what it's worth, the word is 'now' and not 'know'. If you intend to insult, don't make mistakes while doing so.

Steve,
We just received the league rules for my son's 12U league this weekend. I quote:

"3.62 Major 12 Only - Balks will be called according to Pony and IHSA rules.

3.62a - At the discretion of the Umpire(s) ptchers may be given 1 or 2 warnings. Managers should discuss this prior to the game at the home plate meeting with the umpire."

That was verbatim. This is their first year with lead offs/pick offs. It is going to be a long season. ;) Hope all is well on the west coast.

Mike

At some point, silence equals condoning the behavior. If a coach says, "That's two you missed," I'll probably ignore it. If that's interpreted as, "He mustn't have heard me, so I'll yell it louder," then it has to get addressed. Not addressing it at this point would not be the right solution.

I still haven't gotten a response, either - how is a quiet warning the same as drawing a line in the sand and baiting a coach? I'd never say, "one more word," but I have told coaches in arguments (at the college level), "you need to walk away now" and they did. If they don't, then they simply aren't getting the message and the ejection report writes itself.

It's been three years since my last college/HS ejection, but if I had one tomorrow I wouldn't interpret it as anything but another day at the office.

Oh my...so which is it?

It's an immediate and yet a delayed-dead ball.

Just goes to show that local leagues should let the rules writing to someone else.

I'm curious to know how a pickoff from the windup should be handled.

It's a balk and not a balk.

Reminds me of a playoff game a few years ago where I called such a balk and the coach told me he had never heard of such a thing. Or the college game where I left a balk live and the coach and my partner(!!!) (who works D1 games) tried convincing me balks were immediate dead balls.

I go out these days assuming I'm the only one on the field that knows the rules unless I know my partners really well.

Thank you. That was my point. The best umpires know this. It is what the schools teach and veterans preach.

Did you read what I suggested? I wrote that a simple head shake his way (parents know this well!) or a stop sign (palm up and held his direction) are far more professional for the comment he made. Neither bait and both demonstrate authority. I think you'll agree that the job gets done without the umpire being the aggressor.

It isn't a warning. It is a threat. As stated prior, it is akin to the amateur philosophy of "Another word from you and you are done!" What happens when he says, "You're right. I'm sorry."? You look silly, that's what happens.


That is a directive, not a threat. That is a reasonable response to many situations, especially at the college level. You agreed with my contention that the umpire lets the coach eject himself. There is no need to bait.

Agreed. I don't worry about coaches who get tossed. It has been even longer since I ejected a coach. I don't bait and they don't feel a need to cross a line. Like you, I don't worry about comments like "That's two you missed." Silence can never be misquoted does not mean ignore blatant infractions of the rules. For me, it is a guiding principle - don't make a small problem become a big one by baiting a contestant. Enjoy your spring.

That was my thought. That first balk is going to make for some interesting debate.

Yup.

So true, I put you in your place all the time. Oh, sorry for the insult third graders.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but as I read this thread it seems like we have forgotten the 2 type of balk calls. There used to be a standard of practice:

FED - Immediately dead ball - "TIME! That's a balk!" nothing else can happen.

NCAA & OBR - Delayed - "That's a balk!" then get back into position in case action continues.

From this thread, it seems that many are running in different directions on the balk call.

Oh, and once the little tykes get on the big diamond, balks are called - no warnings..... that's called baseball. (yes, I am fully aware that there are some small diamond leagues that call balks - no need to remind us.)

I don't say very much to coaches except usually, "That's enough. I don't want to hear anymore about it."

I did get, "That's two you've missed." I just gave him, "What game are you watching, because I can think of at least three or four more."

Got a huge response from the audience. Feel free to borrow.

Oh, one of my other classics was, "You gotta get better, Blue!" "You think this is bad, you should have seen my last game." with a Groucho Marx cigar flare. (But that was to a parent sitting behind home plate, not a coach) Not as good as the first one IMO, but effective none the less.

Your attempt at comedy is like your underwear.

It's old, it stinks, and it never changes!

^^^LOL! That was funny.

Not at all my intention. Thanks, however for your input. Again you go out of your way to share your experience, vast knowledge and never erring writing with us. I know I appreciate it and from what I hear from my Illinois friends, it is very typical of you to be this unselfish and giving. Thanks, again. I look forward to your next post.

I see you are still unable to discuss baseball umpiring and rely on personal attacks to feel better about yourself. I use my legal name and use this board to learn and help. Try it some time.

Otherwise known as WWMD?

Thank you for your interest and suggestion. I will give it all the consideration it is due. Really, my most sincere thanks. And I know I speak for the entire board when I thank you for all your help.

You're another "prick" off the old block like your crybaby cousin (if y'all ain't one in the same). If you ever add to a thread by really discussing the issue, instead of telling others in such a diverse manner that they're idiots for not having your vast superior knowledge, it would be the first f*ckin' time.

Perhaps you should add Mike's worthless tail end to your elite ignore list.

Maybe in the future you might want to consider what you say as part of the problem. Your superiority complex, only encourages others to act in the same manner. Being antagonistic, and arrogant aren't considered good qualities by the mass majority.

PS-Hopes this pisses you off, but you wouldn't tell the truth if it did anyway. Seeing that your such a devout disciple of Jim Evans, I sure he would be appalled at the way you present yourself.

Is there an intelligent comment anywhere in here?

Oh, there it is. Thanks.

I'm just trying to find the good in everyone and act civilly, no accusations, no arguments. Perhaps you prefer a pissing contest? Not me. I'd just rather get along. Even with you.

Added to the thread by really discussing the issue.

telling others in such a diverse manner that they're idiots for not having your vast superior knowledge.

You are one dumb somb*tch, ya know? Friggin hypocrite, you need to STFU.

Hypocrite? Not quite at your level yet.

Some just can't handle it when someone else throws the ball back in their court.

I think it's a shame that you and a few others have to come to an umpire chat room to get some sort of self glorification. Cyber bullying is sooooo junior highish.

I have yet to miss a call either, we should team up! :eek:

Perhaps not, but your reading skills seem to be missing. I was very clearly writing about complaints about warnings, not about calls.

Excellent. Must work well for you. I prefer reason!

I use reason with the Coach. I listen to him carefully, I attempt reason once again! If he persists in being unreasonable, I remind him that I would not care to, but I shall, use the reasonable rules invested in me to disallow any further participation in the game by him.

You see, reason rules...or the coach must be extricated! :D