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-   -   ML rules balk (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/89779-ml-rules-balk.html)

JR12 Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:23am
ML rules balk
 
At 1:25 in this video, the Umpire explains this call. Whats everyones opinion?
R1 stealing on pitch. F1 balks. R1 rounds 2B and throw from F2 gets him diving back into 2B.
After F2 caught the pitch and it wasn't hit by the batter, I would have killed the ball and enforced the balk. Am I wrong?

JR12 Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 830376)
At 1:25 in this video, the Umpire explains this call. Whats everyones opinion?
R1 stealing on pitch. F1 balks. R1 rounds 2B and throw from F2 gets him diving back into 2B.
After F2 caught the pitch and it wasn't hit by the batter, I would have killed the ball and enforced the balk. Am I wrong?
oops
UmpireTeacher.com WEEKLY TIP BALKS PRO & HS - YouTube

Rich Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 830376)
At 1:25 in this video, the Umpire explains this call. Whats everyones opinion?
R1 stealing on pitch. F1 balks. R1 rounds 2B and throw from F2 gets him diving back into 2B.
After F2 caught the pitch and it wasn't hit by the batter, I would have killed the ball and enforced the balk. Am I wrong?
No.

JR12 Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:31am
Thanks Rich, BTW I still love your Plate Coat!

JR12 Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:34am
He says you should allow the play to continue and call out R1,because he is protected to 2nd base, but passed it at his own risk.

dash_riprock Wed Mar 07, 2012 06:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 830383)
He says you should allow the play to continue and call out R1,because he is protected to 2nd base, but passed it at his own risk.
And you don't even have to tag him. If he dives back to the base, he's out!

johnnyg08 Wed Mar 07, 2012 07:01am
Seems like at the point that B/R can't advance one base, you enforce the balk. I could see where you might have an out due to overzealous base running...I guess I don't know for sure. Obviously in FED, you have a balk and nothing else. I will have to look for case plays or approved rulings.

dash_riprock Wed Mar 07, 2012 07:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 830395)
Seems like at the point that B/R can't advance one base, you enforce the balk.
If the pitcher throws wild (either to a base on a pickoff or a wild pitch), the ball stays live. However, the D cannot attempt to put out a runner before he reaches his award base.

MD Longhorn Wed Mar 07, 2012 09:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock (Post 830392)
And you don't even have to tag him. If he dives back to the base, he's out!
Either this post is missing a smiley or rollseyes ... or this post scares me.

dash_riprock Wed Mar 07, 2012 09:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 830410)
Either this post is missing a smiley or rollseyes ... or this post scares me.
See the video at 1:35 (I don't use those smiley things).

UmpJM Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR12 (Post 830383)
He says you should allow the play to continue and call out R1,because he is protected to 2nd base, but passed it at his own risk.
JR,

"He" is mistaken.

From the MLBUM:

Quote:
... (3) If the balk is followed by a pitch that is caught by the catcher, call "Time" the moment the catcher catches the ball. Then enforce the balk.
There is an exception noted if the pitch is ball four and all runners would be forced to advance by the batter's award of 1B. Then you keep it live and allow the play to continue.

So, if the pitch were ball 4, "He" would be correct - otherwise, he's not.

JM

Rich Ives Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock (Post 830392)
And you don't even have to tag him. If he dives back to the base, he's out!
Edited to include when the dive is illegal.

Diving is only illegal in FED and then only if it's over a fielder - and if this was FED the ball would be dead at the moment of the balk so all the subsequent action would be moot.

Diving is certainly legal in OBR which are the rules used in MLB.

And in OBR the ball is dead as soon as F2 caught it. MLBUM 7.9 Example (3).

dileonardoja Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 830439)
Diving is only illegal in FED - and if this was FED the ball would be dead at the moment of the balk so all the subsequent action would be moot.

Diving is certainly legal in OBR which are the rules used in MLB.

And in OBR the ball is dead as soon as F2 caught it. MLBUM 7.9 Example (3).
Don't you mean diving over a fielder is illegal (FED). Diving back to a base is certainly OK.

JR12 Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:42pm
Not talking FED rules.
Thanks guys, I thought the guy in the video was wrong. Have a good season!

mbyron Wed Mar 07, 2012 01:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 830437)
JR,

"He" is mistaken.

From the MLBUM:



There is an exception noted if the pitch is ball four and all runners would be forced to advance by the batter's award of 1B. Then you keep it live and allow the play to continue.

So, if the pitch were ball 4, "He" would be correct - otherwise, he's not.

JM
The video guy was thinking of the pitch that bounces in, fielded cleanly (but not CAUGHT), and thrown to 2B to get the runner diving back to the base. ;)


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