QuesTec.

[chris s]

Originally posted by greymule
I recently watched a video of the complete 7th game of the 1965 World Series.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The year i was born





Unlike the films of the 1950s, it has plenty of shots from the center field camera. Very instructive to see that in 1965 the umpires called strikes on pitches across the chest, several inches higher than the top of even today's "higher" zone.



TVLD has the beaver, Happy days also!!!


Interesting also that checked swings that today would be obvious strikes were routinely called balls and not even appealed to the base umpires. In those days, you really had to take a cut.

....You mean, actually "strike at the ball", love it when kid has bat hanging over the dish for a bunt, pitch is well over his head, I sez..."No, he didn't", crowd erupts...I look dumb and we play on....LOL

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chris s
[B]

Originally posted by greymule
I recently watched a video of the complete 7th game of the 1965 World Series.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The year i was born

The year I graduated from High School.
...Kids.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mick


The year I graduated from High School.
...Kids.

And you still have that girlish figure?

[chris s]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[B]

Originally posted by chris s

The year I graduated from High School.
...Kids.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Now we know why you just work the dish, you be grizzled, Mick;o

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chris s
[B]

Originally posted by mick

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
Now we know why you just work the dish, you be grizzled, Mick;o

chris s,
Grizzled? That's gray. I'm white.
I started grizzling at 16. (Two years before you were born)
Lots of practice.
I'm still okay in the yard. I almost always get there. Hafta get close, cuz I can't see or hear.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by JRutledge

And you still have that girlish figure?

Yeah, Rut, I have the girlish figure of the girl I wouldn't have dated.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mick


Yeah, Rut, I have the girlish figure of the girl I wouldn't have dated.

Peace

[beatlejuce]

Maybe the system is flawed and should be looked at but...
tell me how many times an umpire calls a strike and 5 seconds later an overhead view shows the ball CLEARLY 6 inches outside the plate. I remember a couple of times it changed the result of the whole game. There isn't any umpire/official/judge that wants replay because it's obvious that they screw up. Maybe the best solution would be is to never show any replays. What I don't know won't hurt me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by beatlejuce
Maybe the system is flawed and should be looked at but...
tell me how many times an umpire calls a strike and 5 seconds later an overhead view shows the ball CLEARLY 6 inches outside the plate.

Almost never. Very few of the overhead cameras are, in fact, directly over (or in line with) the plate. And, it could be that the umpire was calling that pitch to make a point (it's accepted "game management" at times at the upper levels).

I remember a couple of times it changed the result of the whole game.

It changed the result of the whole game more than any of the other 250 pitches the the players (including the batters) made plays on (or didn't)? Wow! Let us know how this happened.

Tee makes the point that Sandy is doing this to show the umpires "who is the boss." I agree. It also has the effect of showing the players (and managers) "Who is the boss."

The umpires didn't just get together one day and decide, "We're going to change the strike zone" -- the zone that's called is (generally) the one that the players and managers (as a whole) want. SUre, they could (and perhaps should) change the rule book to reflect that, but that requires a formal agreement between the players association and MLB -- and that ain't gonna happen.

The ML and minir-league umpires that I"ve talked to (none since QestTec) don't object to evaluations / feedback by people who know what they're talking about -- including video and other "technologies". But, I've seen nothing that indicates that the technologies (as implemented) are accurate / reliable enough to rate or score the umpires.

[David B]

Originally posted by beatlejuce
Maybe the system is flawed and should be looked at but...
tell me how many times an umpire calls a strike and 5 seconds later an overhead view shows the ball CLEARLY 6 inches outside the plate. I remember a couple of times it changed the result of the whole game. There isn't any umpire/official/judge that wants replay because it's obvious that they screw up. Maybe the best solution would be is to never show any replays. What I don't know won't hurt me.

that's what many have been saying. We do watch the game.

When you have a pitcher that can prove that he can put it 2 inches off the plate anytime he wants, then he's deserves to get that call from the PU.

Now we have only a few who can do that, Glavine, Shilling, Maddox, and a few others. But we also remember Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer and etc, etc,

Seaver was the master of the low strike, he could put if there anytime he wanted and he got the strike.

Palmer was a master on the inside and outside corner,

But, I never heard Hank Aaron complaining though about the pitches that were called. I don't think Rod Carew cared either, they just waited for a pitch to hit and did just that.

TV is ruining the game by showing a pitch that the F2 catches perfectly but might be a bit outside. You won't see the batter complaining either because they respect that pitcher.

What has happened is the young pitchers (and use that term loosely) don't know how to hit their spots and they wnat the zone bigger and bigger so they won't walk so many hitters and baseball is actually listening to them???

Same with my games, when I have a young man that can hit his spots he's going to get a lot more calls than 85 percent of the pitchers that we see that don't have a clue and when they actually throw a strike it surprises even themselves.

I think you understand where I'm coming from.

The game was beautiful, now baseball is trying their best to mess it up.


Thanks
David

[GarthB]

...tell me how many times an umpire calls a strike and 5 seconds later an overhead view shows the ball CLEARLY 6 inches outside the plate.

6" I've never seen that. But then I know what 6" really looks like." ; )


I remember a couple of times it changed the result of the whole game.

Absolutely absurd. How about one of the other pitches that the batter chose not to swing at? That could have been a grandslam.

How about the the fly ball the right fielder didn't catch? That was the win right there.


There isn't any umpire/official/judge that wants replay because it's obvious that they screw up.

No. Many actually like replays. Some who don't feel that since the camera doesn't have the limitations the game or situation may place on the offical (getting screened out, having to sprint with the receivers, being concerned with one's safety, etc.) it doesn't actually reflect what the official "saw".

The flaws in Questec have already been pointed out.

Again, if someone is going to make a mistake, I prefer it to be someone human.


[Edited by GarthB on Jun 4th, 2003 at 02:05 PM]

[karl56]

Is the owner of this Questec company blowing Bud Selig or what? That's the only reason I can think of that ole Bud would want this thing used. I think the umpires should call balls and strikes not a machine. This is removing an essential human element of the game.

[beatlejuce]

6" I've never seen that. But then I know what 6" really looks like." ; )
6" is approximatly the width of two baseballs. Also catchers aren't invisable and last I seen the Ump was standing behind him.
The plate probably can't even be seen by the unpire.
(I remember a couple of times it changed the result of the whole game.)
Absolutely absurd.
Here's what happen "it was a 2-2 count and 2 outs bottom of the 9th bases loaded, score tied, Umpire's pizza getting cold". The pitch went way outside
the plate (from the OVERHEAD camera not the outfiefd camera) and at that second it reminded me of the winter olympics judging. Umpire called a strike !
A terrible call.

How about one of the other pitches that the batter chose not to swing at? That could have been a grandslam.
If the batter didn't swing at a strike that could have been a grand slam then the player needs to practice. It was the player that lacked skill not
the bad call from the Ump.

How about the the fly ball the right fielder didn't catch? That was the win right there.
Outfielder needs to practice and improve his skills.

(There isn't any umpire/official/judge that wants replay because it's obvious that they screw up.)
No. Many actually like replays. Some who don't feel that since the camera doesn't have the limitations the game or situation may place on the offical (getting screened out, having to sprint with the receivers, being concerned with one's safety, etc.) it doesn't actually reflect what the official "saw".
Good point!!!

The flaws in Questec have already been pointed out.
Again, if someone is going to make a mistake, I prefer it to be someone human.
Yep I agree the human player not an official.

[Jim Porter]

It could just be me, but Beatlejuce sounds bitter. He expects perfection from the umps, but not from the players. Something's wrong with that line of thinking for sure.

Of course, any thinking person knows that an official does not decide the outcome of any game. It is entirely the fault of the losing team for having placed themselves in such a precarious position that an official's call affects their ability to win the contest.

[GarthB]

Also catchers aren't invisable and last I seen the Ump was standing behind him. The plate probably can't even be seen by the unpire.

Well, this is enough to indicate that you're not an umpire or a damn poor one. When positioning himself properly, the umpire can see the entire plate, the outside corner, a good distance behind the plate and and sometimes a MILF or two.

Here's what happen "it was a 2-2 count and 2 outs bottom of the 9th bases loaded, score tied, Umpire's pizza getting cold". The pitch went way outside the plate (from the OVERHEAD camera not the outfiefd camera) and at that second it reminded me of the winter olympics judging. Umpire called a strike !

First of all, overhead cameras are seldom, if ever, directly overhead. Any angle at all will exaggerate the balls position in regard to the plate. And again, what about all the other pitches. Did they have no effect on the game at all?


If the batter didn't swing at a strike that could have been a grand slam then the player needs to practice. It was the player that lacked skill not the bad call from the Ump.

No sh!#. That's our point Sherlock. There are many more instances in the game where the players could have done something or did something to control the outcome more than any call an umpire makes.

What's the old saying? You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.

How about the the fly ball the right fielder didn't catch? That was the win right there.
Outfielder needs to practice and improve his skills.

Duh.

(There isn't any umpire/official/judge that wants replay because it's obvious that they screw up.)
No. Many actually like replays. Some who don't feel that since the camera doesn't have the limitations the game or situation may place on the offical (getting screened out, having to sprint with the receivers, being concerned with one's safety, etc.) it doesn't actually reflect what the official "saw".

Good point!!!

Yes it is.


The flaws in Questec have already been pointed out.
Again, if someone is going to make a mistake, I prefer it to be someone human. Yep I agree the human player not an official.

I suppose this is an attempt at wit, but since we were speaking of the officals versus technology and not officials versus players, it falls far short.

You ARE Rut, aren't you?