Is the Runner out

sbua · #1 (**permalink**) Sun May 25, 2003, 10:04pm

(1) Out with a runner on 2nd base and B1 hits a line drive that hits the runner standing on 2nd base before it passes the shortstop or 2nd base man.
Is the runner out?

edhern · #2 (**permalink**) Sun May 25, 2003, 10:25pm

The base does not protect the runner (except on an infield fly). The runner is out.

Ed H

spillguy · #3 (**permalink**) Mon May 26, 2003, 01:08am

Depends where it hits him. In the head? probably out for a few minutes, maybe the rest of the game

No, really.. prior answer was correct, only protected if IFF

spillguy

oatmealqueen · #4 (**permalink**) Mon May 26, 2003, 07:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by edhern
The base does not protect the runner (except on an infield fly). The runner is out.

Ed H

Please cite the rule that supports this.
Thx..

Rich Ives · #5 (**permalink**) Mon May 26, 2003, 10:12pm

7.08 Any runner is out when_

f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

If two runners are touched by the same fair ball, only the first one is out because the ball is instantly dead

If runner is touched by an Infield Fly when he is not touching his base, both runner and batter are out.

PeteBooth · #6 (**permalink**) Mon May 26, 2003, 10:21pm

Originally posted by oatmealqueen

Originally posted by edhern

The base does not protect the runner (except on an infield fly). The runner is out.

Pease cite the rule that supports this.

Here's the rule

OBR 7.08 Any runner is out when-

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance.

EXCEPTION:

If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out; If two runners are touched by the same fair ball, only the first one is out because the ball is instantly dead. If runner is touched by an Infield Fly when he is not touching his base, both runner and batter are out.

Pete Booth

edhern · #7 (**permalink**) Mon May 26, 2003, 10:23pm

Fed 8-4-2k

The runner is out when he:

is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder...

Exception:
If a runner is touching his base when he is hit by an infield fly, he is not out, but the batter is out by the infield fly rule. The ball is dead, even in the exception.

Supported by the case book. It doesn't have to be a fly.

I don't know the OBR citation.

Ed H

DownTownTonyBrown · #8 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 10:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by PeteBooth

Here's the rule

OBR 7.08 Any runner is out when-

(f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance.

I notice a difference here between OBR and FED.

OBR: He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder.

FED: is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play.

So... in OBR always out. In FED some one must be in a position that they could make a play or the runner is safe.

Of course when was the last time you saw a runner on the base when the ball was hit.... Oh yeah, youth leagues (OBR rules plus a few extra) can't get off the base until the ball reaches the catcher.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 11:20am

We went through last year's Fed Situation 13 at length. I believe the consensus was that it was at best misleading and at worst simply erroneous:

Situation 13: With the shortstop playing behind second base and in a position to make a catch, the runner standing on second base is hit by a line drive. Ruling: The ball is dead and the runner on second base is declared out. If no infielder had been in a position to make a play, the ball would remain live, provided the runner did not intentionally allow himself to be hit by the batted ball. (5-1-1f1, 8-4-2k, 6-1-5)

Since the base is not a sanctuary in Fed (except on IFR), the fact that the runner is in contact with 2B is irrelevant. But the main problem is that the ball in Situation 13 has not passed a fielder other than the pitcher, yet they are claiming that the runner would not be out unless a fielder could have made a play.

brumey1107 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 11:51am

Question:
If as Rule 7.08(f) states for OBR - He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance..." What happens to the B/R if ball is dead?

Situation: R1, no outs. B/R hits ground ball towards 2nd baseman. R1 is hit by ground ball. R1 is out - no problem there. However, 2nd baseman is able to field ground ball and throw to first base beating B/R.

If, when runner is hit by ball, the ball is dead, do I protect B/R and give him 1st base?

Thank you.

greymule · #11 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 01:23pm

Yes. BR gets 1B and other runners advance only if forced. However, if the interference broke up an obvious double play, then you should call both runner and batter out.

brumey1107 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 02:22pm

Greymule -

Thank you.

I'll have to chalk this one up to inexperience. As PU during 12 & under Pony tournament this weekend, BU made call that R1 and B/R both out.

Make sense as I think about it now. Why penalize the offense two outs if only one out was the most likely scenario.

Thanks again!

Rich Ives · #13 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 07:53pm

What happens to the BR? He gets first by rule. It's a different rule # which is why you have to know the whole set.

6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when_

d) A fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball touches an umpire after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, or having touched a fielder, including the pitcher, the ball is in play.

PeteBooth · #14 (**permalink**) Tue May 27, 2003, 09:02pm

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Originally posted by PeteBooth

I notice a difference here between OBR and FED.

OBR: He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder.

FED: is contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play.

So... in OBR always out. In FED some one must be in a position that they could make a play or the runner is safe.

FED uses what is called the "String Theory" meaning line up all infielders and connect them via a "string". If the ball PASSES the string then hits the runner play on. If the the ball hits runner BEFORE passing the string Dead Ball runner out.

So in theory you could have a different answer between FED and OBR especially if the fielders are playing in. There's a FED case play explaining this.

Pete Booth

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Wed May 28, 2003, 08:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by PeteBooth
FED uses what is called the "String Theory" meaning line up all infielders and connect them via a "string". If the ball PASSES the string then hits the runner play on. If the the ball hits runner BEFORE passing the string Dead Ball runner out.

So in theory you could have a different answer between FED and OBR especially if the fielders are playing in. There's a FED case play explaining this.

Pete Booth

But, there are also FED case plays that "disprove" the string theory.