To say...or Not to say...That is the Question

[thumpferee]

In any level, what will you, as a PU, not tolerate coming from the dugout or coach. Comments on the strike zone, etc.

Also, I am doing Lil' League which is by far the hardest zone in the world to be consistant. In my pre-game I tell the coaches to tell their players to come to the plate and swing the bat. Anything hittable is a strike. I feel this is necessary considering the inconsistancy of pitching and batters not swinging looking for the presumptuous walk. I try to stay consistant with my zone as much as I can, considering. In higher levels I find it easier to call a ball/strike and be more consistant. But at this level which I'm not accustomed to, pitches are blooped in like a softball pitch. You know what i mean. Pitches cross knees, but end up in the dirt...lol

Any comment or help will be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[CDcoach]

Well don't know how much this will help you...but I'll give you a standpoint from a coaches point of view of what is acceptable.

I personally pride myself on setting an example by action to my players. Therefore nothing that comes out of my mouth is vulgar or derrogitory towards the umpire. That is what I think is unacceptable. You have to expect us coaches to groan about a strike call here and there, but if they proceed past that and make comments specifically at you and not about the call or use language that the kids there shouldn't use than it's too far.

I also think approach is real big. If I feel like an umpire's calls are getting way out of hand I always call timeout or wait till an inning break and have a private conversation with the umpire...this seems to work because sometimes no one notices I'm even talking to him instead of making a huge scene and not getting ANY calls my way for the next three innings. So if a coach is making a scene out of a "blown" call by the umpire I think he's gone too far.

Maybe that helped just a little?

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by CDcoach
Well don't know how much this will help you...but I'll give you a standpoint from a coaches point of view of what is acceptable.

I personally pride myself on setting an example by action to my players. Therefore nothing that comes out of my mouth is vulgar or derrogitory towards the umpire. That is what I think is unacceptable. You have to expect us coaches to groan about a strike call here and there, but if they proceed past that and make comments specifically at you and not about the call or use language that the kids there shouldn't use than it's too far.

I also think approach is real big. If I feel like an umpire's calls are getting way out of hand I always call timeout or wait till an inning break and have a private conversation with the umpire...this seems to work because sometimes no one notices I'm even talking to him instead of making a huge scene and not getting ANY calls my way for the next three innings. So if a coach is making a scene out of a "blown" call by the umpire I think he's gone too far.

Maybe that helped just a little?

Thank You Coach.

Unfortunately not all are as respectful and considerate as you. I pride myself on having my "A Game" on everytime I step on the field. I am the type that don't let things bother me as far as remarks by fans or dugouts go. I am very approachable and make that clear in my pre-game. But then you get into the heat of battle, and, well you know how it is. Maybe I wish everytime out there would be no complaints about a strike/ball!

Is that asking too much? lol

[Striker991]

It really depends on the level of play, sometimes even the league. I find that at the higher levels, coaches and players know how to stick the needle in without a lot of pain. Statements like "bring it down a quarter inch, and you'll be zero'd in" or "throw it right there again" and other comments like that will generally get me to giggle more than be irritated. That is their way of saying they disagreed with the call without making it personal and without attacking the umpire. To me, that is acceptable, as long as it stays friendly. You will find that coaches in the lower levels haven't learned this type of concealed communication.
In Little League, majors and below, make the hitters swing. Be consistent, throughout the entire game, and call what you see. Don't discuss strike zones with coaches, even at the plate meeting. Our association makes it very clear, "Gentlemen: Balls, strikes, safes, outs, fair and foul are all judgement calls and we won't be discussing those today." In minors and below, I give a warning. In majors and above, direct comments or discussions about balls and strikes result in ejections without any warning, aside from our plate meeting.

[fguyton]

RE: "I give a warning. In majors and above, direct comments or discussions about balls and strikes result in ejections without any warning, aside from our plate meeting."

I've been coaching for several years and am pretty easy to get along with, and have never so much as been issued a warning by an umpire. But I will confess that in the heat of battle I will sometimes voice an objection to a call, e.g., "Oh come on that was low!". You telling me I should get ejected???

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I don't know that there is a pat answer. My boundaries/limits change from coach to coach, player to player, day to day, game to game, even from inning to inning. In reality my limits are all pretty even across the board but there are times, and people, that I am more tolerant with.

In general, when the coach steps beyond the questioning attitude to a confrontational or demanding attitude (that I'm not doing the job he wants me to do - call his strikes, call his outs/safes, etc.) he has one foot on the way out of the game. I'm usually quiet at this stage and require the coach to put the other foot in the grave before I would send him. If a coach is inciting players or fans to adopt this questioning, challenging attitude, he has one foot in the grave too.

BUT IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO/tangle. Often it is the umpire's attitude that can either calm the situation of exacerbate it to a higher level creating a situation that requires, or is best alleviated by an ejection. So... in general, I feel the umpire often helps cause the ejection by taking a defensive stance rather than a matter-of-fact approach (this is what I saw, this is what I called).

If I am taking the matter-of-fact stance and the coach cannot recognize and control himself, he will end up ejected but it is going to be because of his own actions not mine.

I haven't ejected a coach or a player for several seasons. I think the last one was probably due to my own angry attitude... could have been prevented. I'm getting better at calming the situation.


Some people just can't understand reason and at times can't control themselves. They don't deserve to be present... toss 'em. But make sure they have given you adequate reason and that you have maintained your composure/integrity.

Oooh by the way. Never argue with anyone in the crowd. That will incite players and coaches and other fans to elevate the tension. If there is ever a need to eject a fan, I suggest having the coach deal with it - rarely do I have any higher game management than the coach himself.

[Striker991]

Originally posted by fguyton
RE: "I give a warning. In majors and above, direct comments or discussions about balls and strikes result in ejections without any warning, aside from our plate meeting."

I've been coaching for several years and am pretty easy to get along with, and have never so much as been issued a warning by an umpire. But I will confess that in the heat of battle I will sometimes voice an objection to a call, e.g., "Oh come on that was low!". You telling me I should get ejected???

One comment here and there will generally not get you ejected, by me, or anyone else. And, in your comment, it wasn't personal... However, if you have been chirping all game and out comes "you've been calling them low on my guys all day...how about calling them low on them, too!"...more than likely, you're gone.

Please note, I don't toss at the drop of a dime. In fact, I have ejected only one coach in the past two seasons and it was because he wouldn't let up on my base umpire partner, even AFTER a warning.

As I noted above, get a little creative in your communication, and keep it friendly. You'll get your point across, I'll get a chuckle, and the boys can play ball.

[JEL]

Thanks for these posts, and keep them coming. I am "New Blue" and really need all this input. I can take the abuse,(verbal) but when is it detrimental to the game? How should warnings be worded? I dont want to have to invoke my "umpire authority", unless there are no alternatives. What caused some of your ejections, and would you do it again? I really want to avoid ejecting anyone, so on the same note, what could you have done, (if anything) to prevent it? As a coach, I only saw one opposing coach ejected, and this was after a dirt kicking episode, so I really need input to be able to make this judgement call fairly. BTW, as a youth I was thrown , I was mad at myself for poor play, and threw helmet across the diamond, twice!
Thanks in advance for advice.

[Whowefoolin]

You have got to take in the atmosphere. I had two LL Major games a week apart. Same teams. Both are at the top. Coaches say it is just a game, but no matter how much a parent/coach wants to have fun...it is still competition.

So the first game is semi-close and one team is on me (losing) and the other team is shaking my hand after the game telling me they want me here every game (winners).

Next game, the result of the game flip flops and so do attitudes. The nice guys think I suck, the bad guys (and their fans) think I am great.

So take everything with a grain of salt. Let them play. If they ain't personal, unsportsmanlike, loud, pathetic, etc... let it go.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by thumpferee

In any level, what will you, as a PU, not tolerate coming from the dugout or coach. Comments on the strike zone, etc.


In today's climate DO NOT allow:
1. Chirping from the benches. Chirping can lead to many things including fisticuffs. Cut if off at the pass
Noise is OK. After all what would a baseball game be without it, but the NOISE should be positive not Negative towards another team or player.

2. This might seem like nit-picken but make certain the on-deck batter is where he /she is supposed to be ie; ON HIS / HER OWN side not on the opposing teams side. There was an ugly inicident in a college game (I think Witchita State if memory serves)

3. Coaches and or players should not be BEHIND the backstop trying to time the other F1 The coach needs to be in the dugout or in the coaches box not BEHIND home plate.

4. You said LL and hopefully your league has put up some sort of Tarp BEHIND the plate so that people can't stand there and bother the PU on his / her strike zone.

5. I will not allow rediculing of either myself or my partner even if we "kick" a call which will happen throughout the coarse of the year. When we "kick" a call we can't expect the coach to say "nice job blue" but we do not have to be rediculed either. The coach can have his /her say but then it's time to play ball and not drag the game out. By redicule I mean when a coach or player makes it personal.

6. Strike Zone - Do not give location simply call Ball or Strike. If you start "hearing it" from the bench, take out your line-up card and have a private chat with the coach to get your point across.

Do not "threaten" meaning hey coach "if you do that again" you are gone. Simply say "That's enough" or something similar.

Finally it helps to have a mentor whom you trust to give you good honest feedback after the game. Game management comes with experience and "picking someone's " brain.

Be careful of LL, meaning work for a league that has a strong BOD and will back-up Blue. If you have a "passive" BOD, time to find another league.

Pete Booth










[Edited by PeteBooth on May 23rd, 2003 at 03:05 PM]

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by thumpferee

In any level, what will you, as a PU, not tolerate coming from the dugout or coach. Comments on the strike zone, etc.


In today's climate DO NOT allow:
1. Chirping from the benches. Chirping can lead to many things including fisticuffs. Cut if off at the pass
Noise is OK. After all what would a baseball game be without it, but the NOISE should be positive not Negative towards another team or player.

2. This might seem like nit-picken but make certain the on-deck batter is where he /she is supposed to be ie; ON HIS / HER OWN side not on the opposing teams side. There was an ugly inicident in a college game (I think Witchita State if memory serves)

3. Coaches and or players should not be BEHIND the backstop trying to time the other F1 The coach needs to be in the dugout or in the coaches box not BEHIND home plate.

4. You said LL and hopefully your league has put up some sort of Tarp BEHIND the plate so that people can't stand there and bother the PU on his / her strike zone.

5. I will not allow rediculing of either myself or my partner even if we "kick" a call which will happen throughout the coarse of the year. When we "kick" a call we can't expect the coach to say "nice job blue" but we do not have to be rediculed either. The coach can have his /her say but then it's time to play ball and not drag the game out. By redicule I mean when a coach or player makes it personal.

6. Strike Zone - Do not give location simply call Ball or Strike. If you start "hearing it" from the bench, take out your line-up card and have a private chat with the coach to get your point across.

Do not "threaten" meaning hey coach "if you do that again" you are gone. Simply say "That's enough" or something similar.

Finally it helps to have a mentor whom you trust to give you good honest feedback after the game. Game management comes with experience and "picking someone's " brain.

Be careful of LL, meaning work for a league that has a strong BOD and will back-up Blue. If you have a "passive" BOD, time to find another league.

Pete Booth

Gr8 Advice.

Thank You All!

I definately have to use the line-up card method to get a coach's attention and show respect at the same time. Hopefully I'll get it back from them.










[Edited by PeteBooth on May 23rd, 2003 at 03:05 PM]