Running our of players

[harmbu]

This situation occured in a game using FED rules. Visiting team has ten players listed on their lineup card (9 starters, 1 substitute, no DH). A player from this team is hit in the head by a pitch and has to leave the game. It turns out that the player listed as a substitute is not at the game at the time of the injury. The team has no legal substitute to pinch run for the injured player. Is the injured player declared out at this time? Before the visiting team finishes their turn at bat, the substitute arrives at the game. Can this player be put into the game at this point? Or is the time of the injury the only chance for the team to enter a substitute. Thanks in advance for your help.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by harmbu
This situation occured in a game using FED rules. Visiting team has ten players listed on their lineup card (9 starters, 1 substitute, no DH). A player from this team is hit in the head by a pitch and has to leave the game. It turns out that the player listed as a substitute is not at the game at the time of the injury. The team has no legal substitute to pinch run for the injured player. Is the injured player declared out at this time? Before the visiting team finishes their turn at bat, the substitute arrives at the game. Can this player be put into the game at this point? Or is the time of the injury the only chance for the team to enter a substitute. Thanks in advance for your help.

The most recent batter not on base can run. After the runner is retired (or scores), the team must play with 8 -- even if the sub shows up.

See 4-4-1 Note 1 and Note 2.

[harmbu]

The umpires screwed this one up in more than one way. They called the injured player out because they did not have a substitute. Then they allowed the late-arriving substitute to enter the game at the beginning of the next half inning.

[Newter]

The most recent batter not on base can run. After the runner is retired (or scores), the team must play with 8 -- even if the sub shows up.

See 4-4-1 Note 1 and Note 2.

Bob, Correct me if I'm wrong, harmbu noted this was under FED rules. Isn't this normally called High School ball? In other words, we use NFHS rules, which, I thought was the same as FED rules.

Anyway, my statement is based upon NFHS 2003 rules (High School ball). 3-1-7a notes, as you have stated, the previous batter not on base is allowed to replace the injured runner. However, regarding your second statement, 3-1-7d states once a team has gone short-handed and another eligible player is available, that player may fill the empty space in the lineup. That tells me, if the listed substitute shows up, she can play. Is FED rules and NFHS rules different on this?

I base some of this on another rule 1-1 note: A player who is not listed as an eligible substitute on the lienup card shall not be prohibited from playing Now, I can see the difference, one is talking about a listed substitute who is not in the dugout, and, the other is talking about a substitute, not on the linecard, suddenly appearing and being able to legally substitute. Probably shouldn't, probably will get me into trouble, but, Can't I apply part of rule 1-1 note and 3-1-7d and say a player who walks into the dugout later in the game can legally enter the game?

Am I missing some other specific rule on this subject?

Newter

The

[Newter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Newter

Am I missing some other specific rule on this subject?

Sorry guys. Thought I was on the softball board. Everything I said above was concerning NFHS Softball . Have no earthly idea what Baseball rules say on this subject. Don't have that rule book.

Newter

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Newter

Bob, Correct me if I'm wrong, harmbu noted this was under FED rules. Isn't this normally called High School ball? In other words, we use NFHS rules, which, I thought was the same as FED rules.

FED, NFHS, High School -- all pretty much interchangeable.

Anyway, my statement is based upon NFHS 2003 rules (High School ball). 3-1-7a notes, as you have stated, the previous batter not on base is allowed to replace the injured runner. However, regarding your second statement, 3-1-7d states once a team has gone short-handed and another eligible player is available, that player may fill the empty space in the lineup. That tells me, if the listed substitute shows up, she can play. Is FED rules and NFHS rules different on this?

Are you using a Baseball Rule Book? I can't find a 3-1-7A or a 3-1-7D listed. Perhaps this is a softball rule?

I base some of this on another rule 1-1 note: A player who is not listed as an eligible substitute on the lienup card shall not be prohibited from playing Now, I can see the difference, one is talking about a listed substitute who is not in the dugout, and, the other is talking about a substitute, not on the linecard, suddenly appearing and being able to legally substitute. Probably shouldn't, probably will get me into trouble, but, Can't I apply part of rule 1-1 note and 3-1-7d and say a player who walks into the dugout later in the game can legally enter the game?

I also can't find 1-1 Note in the Baseball Rules Book. SImilar words to those are in the case book -- but it's meant to apply only to who is eligible to enter the game ("anyone who shows up" not "must be on the card") and not to how many can play at one time (again, this is for baseball).

[Newter]

I was SOFT headed when I shoulda been HARD headed. Everything I quoted was softball rules.

Newter

[Bfair]

Fed rule 4-2-4f (game forfeited when):

is unable to provide at least nine players to start the game or cannot provide eight players to finish the game: or

NOTE 1: An out will be called each time that spot in the batting order comes to bat. If the offensive player must be substituted for after reaching base, the most recent batter not on base is allowed to run for that player. NOTE 2: A team playing with fewer than nine players may not return to nine players.

They provide the exception of allowing a player already in the game to run for a player on base if he must leave while on base. While that is legal, it still doesn't mean that they are not down to only 8 players. They are. Since they have gone to only 8 players, they are not allowed to increase again to 9 players, and the vacant batting slot becomes an out everytime it occurs.

---

BUT, let's suppose that the spot is due to bat and the vacancy is missed----no out is called.
What happens if additional play proceeds without the out being called?
Can the out later be called to "correct" the issue?
Should it be done? What if there were 2 outs when the vacancy was due to bat, but three following batters were allowed to bat and all scored before the defense brings to your attention that you didn't declare the out for the vacancy, and that the inning should have been over 3 batters ago?

What do you do?



Freix

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bfair
BUT, let's suppose that the spot is due to bat and the vacancy is missed----no out is called.
What happens if additional play proceeds without the out being called?
Can the out later be called to "correct" the issue?
Should it be done? What if there were 2 outs when the vacancy was due to bat, but three following batters were allowed to bat and all scored before the defense brings to your attention that you didn't declare the out for the vacancy, and that the inning should have been over 3 batters ago?

What do you do?

What do I do? Treat it as BOO.

If "Abel" is missing, and Baker bats, Baker is BOO. When a pitch is thrown to Charlie, all is right again.