Fielding a team

[Mattinglyfan]

Juniors(13-14)

The opposing team started the game with 9 players. After the bottom of the 4th inning the head coach and his son left the game leaving them with 8. The umpire called a forfiet with us leading 10-8.
The opposing team claimed that as long as they started with 9, the could finish with 8. I thought this was also correct. I hate to win this way, but I will always take a W.
They are filing a protest to finish the game.
I don't have a problem with this. However, HERE IS THE QUESTION. I feel that if we finish, we should go back to were the game left off. Same line up, same order, and same number of players. I think they should have to finish with 8 players. It would be an unfair advantage for them to finish with more players than the had at the time the game was called.

[Rich Ives]

By juniors I assume Little League rules.

You may NOT finish with 8. (You can in HS but not in LL)

It is not an automatic forfeit. BoD gets to decide.

Applicable rules (Little League):

The umpire may declare a forfeit for the reasons listed in 4.15 - lack of players is NOT one of them.

RULE 4.15
A game may be forfeited by the umpire-in-chief of the game in progress to the opposing team when a team-
(1) being upon the field, refuses to start play within 10 minutes after the appointed hour for beginning the game, unless such delay, in the umpire’s judgment, is unavoidable;
(2) refuses to continue play unless the game was terminated by the umpire;
(3) fails to resume play, after the game was halted by the umpire, within one minute after the umpire has called “Play”;
(4) fails to obey within a reasonable time the umpire’s order to remove a player from the game;
(5) after warning by the umpire, willfully and persistently violates any rules of the game;
(6) employs tactics designed to delay or shorten the game.

Lack of players is covered in 4.17.

RULE 4.17
If during a game either team is unable to place nine (9) players on the field due to injury or ejection, the opposing manager shall select a player to re-enter the lineup. A player ejected from the game is not eligible for re-entry. If no players are available for rereentry, or if a team refuses to place nine (9) players on the field, this shall not be grounds for automatic forfeiture but shall be referred to the Board of Directors for a decision. NOTE: A game may not be continued with less than nine (9) players on each team.



But at the bottom line, as the player and coach left voluntarily, I'd have a hard time as a BoD member in allowing the game to continue.

[Mattinglyfan]

Thank you very much!

If both boards DID allow the game to continue, would the opposing team be allowed to play with nine again, or would they have to continue under the same circumstances as when it was called?

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
Thank you very much!

If both boards DID allow the game to continue, would the opposing team be allowed to play with nine again, or would they have to continue under the same circumstances as when it was called?

See Rich's last sentence of quoted rule: NOTE: A game may not be continued with less than nine (9) players on each team.

[Jerry]

Don't worry about it. If the BoD decides to supercede the rules of the game; let them tell you what rules to invoke. In fact, require them to tell you if 8 players is alright. The rules require a full nine. IMO . . . once they could not field a full team of nine, the game should have ended. The best you can do is to officiate the game from "Point B"; and let someone else protest.

Jerry

[Mattinglyfan]

Thanks for your input. I am really not concerned. We would play them regardless. I would just like to understand for the future.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by Jerry
Don't worry about it. If the BoD decides to supercede the rules of the game; let them tell you what rules to invoke. In fact, require them to tell you if 8 players is alright. The rules require a full nine. IMO . . . once they could not field a full team of nine, the game should have ended. The best you can do is to officiate the game from "Point B"; and let someone else protest.

Jerry

Against what rules? This is LL. LL rules allow the BoD to decide whether or not to continue. Until then the game is suspended. If it is resumed, players eligible to play may do so, including the player who left, others who were not even at the start of the game, and starters eligible to return may do so - just as in any other suspended game..

[Mattinglyfan]

Okay now I am confused Rich. If the umpire called the forfeiture, and the BoD decides to let the game finish, then the team who didn't have enough players at the time of the suspension, can now field 9? That really doesn't sound fair. If the game did continue, they would of had to continue with eight. So doesn't make sense for them to finish with 8 if the BoD decides to let it continue?

[Rich Ives]

No NO No

The game is suspended at the point the team could not field 9.

When the game is resumed, every eligible player may play.

The kid who left is technically still in the game (no sub was announced) so he may continue.

Any other players who were not there, but are there for the resumption may play.

RULE 4.01
NOTE: Rostered players who arrive at the game site after a game begins may be inserted in the lineup, if the manager so chooses. This applies even when a suspended game is resumed at a later date.

[Mattinglyfan]

Maybe I don't understand the ruling.

If you fielding a team with nine, and were losing because your best pitcher was gone, why not have one of the kids leave, and make up the game when all the kids were available. That way you could have all of the kids there.

Or does therule state that only the nine that were there at the beginning of the game be eligible.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by Mattinglyfan
Maybe I don't understand the ruling.

If you fielding a team with nine, and were losing because your best pitcher was gone, why not have one of the kids leave, and make up the game when all the kids were available. That way you could have all of the kids there.

Or does therule state that only the nine that were there at the beginning of the game be eligible.

1) Because the BoD makes the decision. Resuming is an option, not a requirement.

2) I posted the rule (4.01 NOTE). Which part don't you understand?

[Mattinglyfan]

I understand what you are saying, I just think that I don't really understand the ruling. It just seems kind of strange. The other team was willing to finish with eight. So if we continued that game they had eight to play with. So if we resume the suspended game they should have to play with eight. I think I just disagree with the rule. It seems like a waste of time to have a kid leave and try to finish at another date. There should be some sort of penalty for starting the game with nine, and ending with another amount. If I don't have the same number of players that I started with, I shouldn't be able to resume the game, and put in whoever I choose, now that I have more players. Just my thought. Maybe I am completely dense on this.

[GarthB]

If LL prohibits playing with 8 in the first place, why on earth would you expect them to allow playing with 8 when the game is resumed? Do the rules get suspended when a game is continued?

[Mattinglyfan]

then they shouldn't be able to resume the game right. Either finish with eight, or forfeit. But that doesn't seem to be the rule. So why shoudl we finish.
I am sorry for the ingnorance guys, but if the up called the game, they shouldn't be able to make this up. If the ump was wrong, they should file a protest. It is my understanding that they never did. If they knew that a kid was going to leave for a school event, they should have taken the forfeit in the first place.

[Rich Ives]

THE UMP WAS WRONG!!!!!!

I posted the rules.

Get a grip.