Two balls in the field

[Mando]

I just started umpiring several weeks ago. I was working behind the plate and thank God my partner had to make this call. There was a runner on first base and one out. The batter hits a foul ball just over first base and over the fence. I threw in a new ball to the pitcher. A fan throws the ball back to the first baseman. The batter then hits the ball into the outfield, tries to stretch it into a double, and ends up in a run down. The ball is thrown to the first baseman who now ends up with two balls in his glove. He discards one ball and then tags out the runner. My partner calls out the runner and states that since the first baseman dropped the other ball, the runner advanced at his own risk. I personally would have called obstruction and awarded the runner second base. What's the right call?

[chris s]

Originally posted by Mando
I just started umpiring several weeks ago. I was working behind the plate and thank God my partner had to make this call. There was a runner on first base and one out. The batter hits a foul ball just over first base and over the fence. I threw in a new ball to the pitcher. A fan throws the ball back to the first baseman. The batter then hits the ball into the outfield, tries to stretch it into a double, and ends up in a run down. The ball is thrown to the first baseman who now ends up with two balls in his glove. He discards one ball and then tags out the runner. My partner calls out the runner and states that since the first baseman dropped the other ball, the runner advanced at his own risk. I personally would have called obstruction and awarded the runner second base. What's the right call?

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Foul ball, there can be NO play/OUT/SAFE ...etc untill YOU, THE PU makes it hot again!!!!!The ball becomes alive when the F1 has assumed his position on the rubber

[refman]

Sounds to me like the plate umpire DID make it "hot" again since the batter got a base hit. Whether he did it intentionally or not is unknown.
First of all, why didn't the 1b call time and throw the retreived ball back to the PU? His mistake, because the fact that he had a second ball......however innocent....no way can you call the runner out. Protect the runner back to first.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by Mando
I just started umpiring several weeks ago. I was working behind the plate and thank God my partner had to make this call. There was a runner on first base and one out. The batter hits a foul ball just over first base and over the fence. I threw in a new ball to the pitcher. A fan throws the ball back to the first baseman. The batter then hits the ball into the outfield, tries to stretch it into a double, and ends up in a run down. The ball is thrown to the first baseman who now ends up with two balls in his glove. He discards one ball and then tags out the runner. My partner calls out the runner and states that since the first baseman dropped the other ball, the runner advanced at his own risk. I personally would have called obstruction and awarded the runner second base. What's the right call?

You as the PU should maintain control of the game. When there is a foul ball, you as PU should either get the foul ball back in, or get your BU to hold or have the foul ball held. The ball should not be put back into play until you as the PU maintain safe and controlled playing conditions.


IMO, you as the PU should have said "hold that ball!" or "1st base, get that ball please!", or "partner, get that ball please!".

What if there was a shot hit down 1st while the 1st baseman was retrieving a foul ball from the stands? That is a dangerous situation and someone can be seriously injured. Even with a player in a rundown and the other ball being discarded, can result in an injury.

You should be able to see the entire field as a PU. Just curious, when did you as the PU see the ball thrown in from foul territory?

But considering your situation, the ball should have been called dead once the another ball was discovered and the batter awarded 1st.

I don't recall any situation in the case book or rule book interpretation to this situation. Maybe someone can give a reference.

[Mando]

I guess the problem is that I didn't see the foul ball being thrown back to the 1st baseman or I would have called time. Lesson Learned. I appreciate the input and good thing no one got hurt.

Thanks.

[woolnojg]

One suggestion.
I always make a scan of the field prior to assuming my plate stance.Third base foul line to first base foul line. This will help you spot problems before they become PROBLEMS.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mando
I just started umpiring several weeks ago. I was working behind the plate and thank God my partner had to make this call. There was a runner on first base and one out. The batter hits a foul ball just over first base and over the fence. I threw in a new ball to the pitcher. A fan throws the ball back to the first baseman. The batter then hits the ball into the outfield, tries to stretch it into a double, and ends up in a run down. The ball is thrown to the first baseman who now ends up with two balls in his glove. He discards one ball and then tags out the runner. My partner calls out the runner and states that since the first baseman dropped the other ball, the runner advanced at his own risk. I personally would have called obstruction and awarded the runner second base. What's the right call?

1) As others have said, look first.

2) Given that you didn't, I'd have an out -- I don't see how the "dropped ball" affected play, based on your description.

[BJ Moose]

Yes, that is it exactly. God set up that play so that YOU would NOT have to make a call. Which, after all, is everyone's goal. Please God, don't make me have to make any calls. This explains why I got creamed multiple times last night (once in the flippin' neck) in my lowlevel JV game. I am being punished by God.

Originally posted by Mando
and thank God my partner had to make this call

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I occasionally will allow play to continue when either my partner has a ball in his hand or the base coach is holding a ball. A ball anywhere else on the field and the play is dead until the ball is retreived and in my bag.

If a ball enters the field during play... I would likely let the play finish unless the extra ball confused the players or created a safety problem. Then kill it and straighten it out as best I could.

I could see the runner saying "Well, the 1st baseman just threw the ball away. I guess I will walk back to 1st. TAG. Now I would call the runner safe at 1st. This didn't appear to be your situation though and out was likely the best call.

[Bfair]

Here's an email and response from WUA (Rick Roder) made 1/03:

Questions from Steve Freix :

Extra ball appears while play is occurring.

Pitch is low, deflected by catcher, and hits bottom of ball bag knocking extra ball onto field. Original ball deflects about 6 ft. away while ball from bag drops straight downward. Catcher, who is unaware of what occurred, fields the wrong ball and makes a play retiring an advancing runner. What do you do?

A similar situation could occur where an outfielder, diving for a ball along the line misses the ball which rolls to the fence. Fan of the defense drops ball onto field much closer to fielder which he unknowingly plays into the infield. Is this fan interference, or would a fan have to physically contact a ball or player on the field--inclusive of throwing items at a fielder, I assume?

What if this ball was not dropped by a spectator but was an errant warm-up throw out of either bullpen? Would this be interference per 3.15? If so, it's unintentional which says play should continue without umpire judgment coming into play---correct?

Importantly, what if you judged that the fielder had opportunity to know which ball was which and intentionally chose to play the incorrect ball?

[AND HERE'S THE RESPONSE]

The response to all these scenarios is the same. The original ball is in play unless an umpire is unable to determine which ball is the correct ball. At that point he calls time and decides what would have happened without the mixup. He then awards bases, calls outs, whatever he decides needs to be done to rectify the situation.
[my emphasis]

Thanks for your questions!

World Umpires Association

Just thought I'd share this.
Call 'em out or award bases, whatever you feel appropriate to rectify situation caused by an extra ball----but don't do anything to kill the ball or stop the action until the extra ball on the field actually interferes with play.


Just my opinion,

Freix