batwarmer
 

ASA Approved Bat Warmer Sleeve Official Site By PYROFLITE Microwaveable Bat Warmer

So are we saying this contraption is legal or illegal for NFHS baseball play in the spring of 2012?

Artificial bat warming devices are illegal in FED baseball.

Well this device calls itself "natural" and "ficial" which I think are both the opposite of artificial. So is it legal then?

illegal

Bat warmer = illegal...

If the website is still claiming they are ASA approved they would be wrong. Batwarmers were illegal in ASA, then for a couple of years they allowed them, then after further testing they determined they did alter the hitting characteristics of the bat and they were outlawed again for 2012.

If the warming was "natural" then they wouldn't need a device. I have contacted the manufacturer and asked for paperwork from ASA with respect to their certification of this device. ASA, of course, isn't binding on Federation Baseball. I will note, however, that the 2012 ASA rule change appears to specifically prohibit this device.

The rule reads 1-3-5," No artficial or intentional means shall be used to control the temperature of the bat."

It certainly seems to me that if your going to heat a bag or whatever in the microwave and put the bat in it, it is not because you you love your bat so much you want it to have a warm feeling about you.

Then again, I have seen some strange things.

no!

Exactly. The only natural bat warmer is the player's body heat.

According to an email from the state office here in NC, Interpreters have been instructed that placing bats on the tin roof of the dugout is intentionally warming the bat and makes the bat illegal. So this device is clearly illegal for NFHS.

And just leaning them on the fence in the sun isn't?

I'd say letting them sit in the sun is pretty natural. I had my kids either sit on the barrels, or keep them under their arm pits on cold nights. For day games, I made sure they were in the direct sunlight.

There are several places the coach can stick his bat that I would consider legal. At least one of them would likely result in the bat becoming warmer.

And I have silently made that recommendation to players and coaches alike!!

ASA is softball so it doesn't matter whether the item is approved by ASA. This is a baseball forum and NHFS says no to artificial bat warmers. Yes, Rich, it is alright to let your metal bat warm in the sun - just as it is okay to sit on your bat to warm it up.

Of course, real bats (wood) do not need warming up!

Of course wood bats need warming up. Wood is not different that any other material. A material's ductility is a function of its temperature. Of course a material's temperature is only one variable in a material's ductility. But wood's natural ductility is greater than metal.

But remember when sitting on a wood bat, splinters are a possiblity, :eek:.

MTD, Sr.

The next thing we will be worried about is the players body temperature prior to handling the bat. Not directed to you john, however some officials need to get a freaking life. Most of these HS players have enough trouble making contact. I understand the importance of having standard and safe equipment but looking for bats on top of the dugout is almost like brushing the bases and pitching plate after each inninng.

Sometimes , you just have to umpire!

hahahahaha
me too

Easy now. There are many of us who work both baseball and softball so some points may be brought up based on others' knowledge and experience. With that said, I agree 100% - Yes, the two sports are completely different when it comes to bats.

For those of you "dual" officials - I contacted the representative of the company (I like to get to the bottom of things without wasting much time.) The approval came in 2010. There has been no continual approval. ASA changed the rule and the device is now strictly prohibited in ASA (although I don't expect that to be on the company's website). SOFTBALL INTERP. ONLY!

Nahhhh.

Twas an attempt at humor and a poke at a questionable rule Ozzy.

You can't warm it in the sun if you put it on the tin roof but you can if you lean it on the fence?

What if it's a concrete roof, not a tin roof?

How about a fiberglass roof?

Can you leave your personal bat in your personal black equipment bag in the sun between ABs?

Normal ambient temperature conditions in Arizona will yield a warmer bat than one in NY or CT. Should we make them cool the bats in AZ?

I know, Rich... I was continuing the fun. :D

If a player sticks a bat under his armpit to warm it up, I say nothing
If a team happens to lean their bats against a fence which happens to be facing the sun, I say nothing.
If a team constructs an Archimedes Heat Ray directed at their bats, then we have a problem.

I didn't know how that Archimedes messed around with Heat Rays. I thought he just scribbled numbers on parchment and convinced everyone around him that he was smarter the they were.

You could roast it over a fire as long as no accelerants were used to light the fire. Arson investigation was a big discussion at this year's winter meetings.

An example was used in our state clinic that bats are not allowed on the dugout top because it can warm the bats.

I have never seen a team with bat warmers or laying them on the roof. I think much ado about nothing.

Direct quote from one of the commentators in a game I was PU last year: "I like the fact he's calling strikes, but I'd wish he'd call more. The ink in my pen has frozen."

If you've ever hit a ball with aluminum in sub-freezing temperatures, you'll know why teams would warm their bats.

That OMG effect is from mi****ting the ball. Amplified a lot when it's cold.

Rich: re: **** - was that you or the profanity filter?

Wait - I can get that answer myself.

Mi****ting

m i s - h i t t i n g

Does this make it past the filter?

Yup.

If the bat-warmer didn't do anything, than I conclude the following:

1. It wouldn't be called a bat warmer.

2. No one would buy this $50+ bat bag.

3. No one would sell it.

4. If it didn't do anything, why would we have them?

There's a reason the word "gullible" is in the dictionary.

Actually, it isn't. ;)

On a cold night, I'd have no trouble with a bat being heated up into "operational" temperature. In fact, I'd rather like it.

I saw one metal bat explode into shards on a cold evening years ago. Never want to see that happen again.

My son is a pitcher. I have a problem with a batter gaining an illegal advantage.

Is a bat used in 90 degree F ambient OK but a bat warmed to 90 degrees F on a 40 degree F day not?

If so, why?

You answered your own question. Having to apply an artificial source of heat to the bat is an attempt to gain an advantage. As the father of a young pitcher, I see this as dangerous cheating.

I'm sure your answer would be different if your son were a catcher or umpire, and an ice cold metal bat were be swung in front of their face.

These things came in vogue about 10 years ago when all the bats got so expensive. While a bat will contract or expand slightly in hot and cold weather, it still isn't noticeable to the naked eye. It does however damage the sturdiness of the material it is made of.

The senior softball bats that are made of a carbon shell will show what will look like a little scratch on the "painted" part. A few swings later it will look like the fender of an old Corvette that was slightly bumped into.

I suggest that you always store your umpire or sports equipment at room temperature to protect it from elements like extreme heat or cold.

It's not dangerous because the bat would be at the same temperature it would be on a normal 90 degree day.

Or is playing on a 90 degree day dangerous?

I fully understand Mike's concern, if heating up a bat would make it perform beyond it's ratings, and not just up to it.

Which begs the next question: Do testing facilities ever test at different temperatures? I'm guessing they don't.

Any testing lab that does'nt, certainlly isn't one I would want to certify my product though.

By the way, I did a 12 inning HS scrimmage yesterday and one team used wood bats and the other BBCOR certified alluminum. 75 deg for entire game and one school was State Champions last year and the other was fairly matched in talent. Not sure if it was all bat performance or early season player performance however this was not a slugging contest. Many players commented about getting good contact with BBCOR, seems to be more important with the new bats, rather than any type of contact. Just under 3 hours for entire scrimmage. Three of us rotated 4 innings each on the dish. If this is any indications of the upcoming season. It works for me.

Begs the question is not the same as "makes me wonder" or "raises the question". Begs the question actually begs a specific question, one cannot just make up any old question that is being begged. The question that is being begged is "what is the support for your argument?"

Begs the question is used when an argument is circular and makes no sense or is invalid.

Person 1: "This food is tasty because it is delicious."
Person 2: "That begs the question."

Tasty and delicious basically mean the same thing. Saying that something is tasty because it is delicious is not a valid argument. This begs the question. Person 1 must better support their argument about why the food is tasty.

You missed my point.

Warming a bat to 90 degrees doesn't equate it to being played in 90-degree weather.

I beg your pardon.

(I wonder what your plate conferences are like)

I think it should be perfectly legal....
 

... Only if I can use it in between innings to warm my hands on a cold day when I have the plate. Other than that they should be illegal.... :eek:

You're right. A bat in 90-degree weather would be much warmer than 90 degrees.

With all due respect, your inference is irrelevant. Living in the Chicago suburbs, our seasons begin cold. He faces cold bats all of the time and is learning how to respond to balls hit from them. If a bat has been artificially warmed on such a day, the bat will react differently. That IS what the companies show in their studies, after all...and why they are considered illegal for HS baseball, where safety rules the day.

No Rich, you are mistaken. Bats should respond the same way given ambient temperatures. Warming one with artificial means in order to induce an advantage (we know that it does) is not fair play.

Using "begs the question" improperly is just one of those common grammatical glitches, like saying, "I could care less", when you really mean, "I couldn't care less". Google the phrase. You'll find more than you ever wanted to know about it's usage.

Irregardless, I still want to know what his plate conferences are like.

(yeah, I know)

:)

It goes without saying, you know.:p

Same difference.

Honest coach.

It depends how cold it actually is. I play softball from the beginning of February to the end of October in Texas. When the weather is cooler, not cold, the air is thinner here, the ball will fly further, and with more velocity than in the hot, hot summer months. Most ball fields around here are bottom land (land that is close to rivers and creeks), and generally not used for development. Bat manufacturers recommend not to use some bats below a certain temperature. The reason, bats will become harder (contract), and become brittle which increases the chances of the bat breaking. A bat warmer will maybe/maybe not make the bat less susceptible to breaking. I think it is more of a gimmick, than an advantage to a hitter. Excessive heat will make a bat expand, thus more susceptible to breakage, also.

Uh, no.

Yeah, pretty much. When it's what we call cold here, the wind is usually blowing hard out the north or northwest, and the humidity is higher. We get a wet cold most the time. With global warming, winter is almost a thing of the past here.

I wear shorts most the year, and very seldom a jacket. Mostly a long sleeve t-shirt with some pants, usually just a pair of workout pullovers. I'm not out in it as often as I used to be. The only time I need to dress warm is if I'll be out in the colder weather for an extended time, or the wind is blowing.

We very seldom get down under 40% humidity in our cold season. In the bottoms, the air is cooler at night depending on the time of year. In the Red River Valley which is close to the Texas/Oklahoma state line. You can go to bed at 10:00 PM with a window open and no cover. About 2:00 AM, you will wake up shivering, and need a sheet and a blanket. We get about six months of summer. Throw in a summer of drought, and it's even hotter.

Humidity is a b*tch. I was out in Phoenix at the end of October with temps in the low 90's, and I didn't break into the same type sweat if it was the low 90's here. In fact, I probably over-hydrated. We finished playing ball on a Saturday night, and started driving back about noon Sunday (MST in Arizona as they don't use DST there). I had to stop to pee at about every truck stop from Phoenix to the New Mexico state line.

The issue you raised was dangerous. I challenged that part of your post. A 90 degeree bat is a 90 degree bat - doesn't matter how it got to 90 degrees. If it's safe at 90 ambient it's safe artificially warmed to 90.

The "no" referred to the idea that colder air is thinner. Where you are, it makes no difference.

Yes Rich, it does matter. Artificially heating a bat will cause it to react differently than it normally would. THAT is why it is illegal. Artificially heating a bat creates an unfair advantage when it is cold. It is akin to scuffing a ball - it changes the dynamics of what is expected.

Another member wrote that it will make the bat expand and become more brittle. That may be the case and if so is another reason why artificially heating a bat when it is cold outside is a problem. Composite bats tend to break at the handle, not the barrel, during cold weather. You don't create a safer bat by heating the barrel.

When we warmed up bats in our dugout, on cold nights, we no longer cracked or dented them. We used either an electric blanket, or I had the guys sit on the barrels, or put them under their arm pits.

Take that for whatever it's worth.

A2D I guess.


BTW - cold makes it more brittle, not heat.

I have a couple of governing agencies with rules supporting my opinion - artificially warming bats creates an unfair advantage.

Taking a cold bat and heating it artificially weakens the bonds in the composite material. Heating the barrel leaves the handle vulnerable. Bat manufacturers and the aformentioned agencies cite this as a hazard.

I find it funny that so many on this forum consider coaches to be 'rats' for seeking any advantage they can, yet consider bat warming to be tolerable. No Rich, I wasn't referring to you, my friend. A2D. Enjoy the time left before we hit the fields again.

I'm just talking about getting a bat up to it's proper operating temperature, when it's below 40 degrees outside.

I'm not saying whether or not it's legal or should be acceptable - just that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that a bat at 90 Degrees F "knows" whether it got there artifically or naturally and thus responds differently.

BTW - some bats used to (maybe still do) say the warranty is invalid if used below certain temps. That would seem to me to suggest there is a concern over using cold bats.