Third strike touching ground before before being caght by catcher

[coachnatte]

I have been searching the NFHS Rule Book and cannot find a distinct ruling on this situation. I have had umpires make different rulings on the following situation. With 2 outs and a man on first my player swung and missed on the third strike. The ball hit the dirt behind home plate and then went into the catchers glove. My player, seeing the ball hit the dirt after he swung, ran to first base. The opposing catcher did not make a play on my runner as he thought the play was over since he caught the ball in his glove after it hit the dirt. In one situation the HU immediately called my BR "out". In another game with a different crew he advanced to first, again with the catcher not making a throw. This time the HU called him safe at first. Please tell me what is the correct ruling? I was under the impression that a "catch" was the ball going from the pitcher directly to the catchers glove. Otherwise it would be ruled as a trapped ball, not a catch. Am I correct or not? Thanks. Mike Natte.

[Jay R]

You are correct. A ball that touches the ground first is not a caught third strike. With two outs, the BR can run to first.

[JRutledge]

is this any different than a hit ball? If the ball hits the ground first, it is not a caught pitch. So all the rules that are at play, apply here. Just that simple.

Peace

[coachnatte]

Thanks Jay R- the opposing coach in one game agreed with me. In another- just the opposite. I guess I am not the only one including a couple of Michigan officials who were uncertain about the call. Thanks for responding. Mike Natte.

[coachnatte]

Thanks JRutledge- it made sense to me.

[jicecone]

"I guess I am not the only one including a couple of Michigan officials who were uncertain about the call."

In defense of those officials, sometimes that trap ball is not clearly seen by the PU, or heard from behind the catcher. I have worked games were it wasn't clear to me that it was a clean catch. In those cases I have had to rely on my partner to either help me out or leave me out to dry. In those situations, the PU definitely has the worst seat in the house.

Given that, I can understand the possibility of different calls.

[DaFut]

Pitched ball hits dirt (or plate), whether swung at or not, on third strike, with first base empty or with two outs, the Batter can attempt to legally advance to first base.

Catcher may either tag or throw out BatterRunner at first. Running lane rules are still in effect. Any runners on second and/or third (and/or first, if two outs) advance at their own risk.

[gobama84]

Originally posted by DaFut
Pitched ball hits dirt (or plate), whether swung at or not, on third strike, with first base empty or with two outs, the Batter can attempt to legally advance to first base.

Catcher may either tag or throw out BatterRunner at first. Running lane rules are still in effect. Any runners on second and/or third (and/or first, if two outs) advance at their own risk.

I hope that a pitched ball that hits dirt or plate and is not swung at "is not a strike".

[jicecone]

"I hope that a pitched ball that hits dirt or plate and is not swung at "is not a strike"."

Come on Loyd, haven't you ever expanded your strike zone. I know there been some games I've done that if the pitcher released the ball, it was a strike. Sometimes you just have to get to the end of the game.

[coachnatte]

Bear with me one more time on this issue.The bases are loaded with 2 outs. The BR swings and misses on the third strike and the ball is not caught by the catcher. The ball deflects toward the third baseman.The runner at third hesitates at first as the batter runs toward first. The third baseman seeing he has no chance to throw the BR out sees the runner at third break for home. He makes his throw to home in a play on this runner. My question is: Is this a force play at home or does the runner going to home need to be tagged out?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by coachnatte
Bear with me one more time on this issue.The bases are loaded with 2 outs. The BR swings and misses on the third strike and the ball is not caught by the catcher. The ball deflects toward the third baseman.The runner at third hesitates at first as the batter runs toward first. The third baseman seeing he has no chance to throw the BR out sees the runner at third break for home. He makes his throw to home in a play on this runner. My question is: Is this a force play at home or does the runner going to home need to be tagged out?

Force play.

[coachnatte]

Thank you sir. Good baseball!

[RPatrino]

Ok, heres an added twist.

Situation: Runner at third, 2 outs. Dropped third strike, runner from 3rd breaks for home and a play is made at the plate, runner is safe. BR, however, is still standing about 1/2 way to first. F2 notices this and fires to 1st for the third out.

Do you score the run?

[brumey1107]

No run. 3rd out of B/R is a force.

[David B]

In the FED rule book you can find it under:

7-4-1b (also the note under that)
8-1--1b (and the note under that)

For determination of catch that is under the definitions etc.,

You might want to pass that on to the officials just for their FYI.

But this is a tough call for the PU especially if his partners are not alert to help.

We use the closed fist if the ball is caught.
No one notices it but the PU and the BU involved.

If there is no signal then PU assumes the ball that bounces was not caught. But this would need to be covered in pre-game.

Thanks
David