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Wed May 07, 2003, 01:35pm
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Situation: Sophomore level HS game. Runner on 1st and a Right handed pitcher on the mound. Pitcher is in a legal set position. Pitcher lifts his left (non pivot) leg to start his delivery. He then kicks this foot back toward first and wheels and throws there. I call a balk and the players and coach argue saying the pickoff was a 'Johhny G' pickoff move and thus legal. I have been umping only 3 years but I have played for 20 and have never seen nor heard of such a legal pickoff at any level. Is this something I just don't know? Am I being messed with? Help me out. 
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Wed May 07, 2003, 01:53pm
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Wed May 07, 2003, 05:40pm
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Freakin brutal
Tim may be brutal, but I have learned more from him than just about any other poster on these boards. BTW...if you can't take some unknown cyber person typing at you, how in the world are you going to be able to handle a coach in your face on the field?
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Thu May 08, 2003, 07:24am
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Re: spots101
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Is that a rule too?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Thu May 08, 2003, 11:04am
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While I agree that it is two separate movements, why is it usually allowed for LHP. I see no rule that defferentiates between right and left handers.
Federation rules say that if you fail to deliver to the plate after starting a motion habitually used in your motion then it is a balk. So then shouldn't the "hanging" of the right leg for a LHP be a balk also???
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Thu May 08, 2003, 12:00pm
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There is no difference
If a left hander hangs his foot call it a balk also.
Now there probably a lot of umpires who let them get away with it, but that does not mean it wasn't a balk. If he makes a move to the plate or to first it must be continuous etc., Left or right doesn't matter. Thanks David
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Thu May 08, 2003, 12:31pm
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Re: There is no difference
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A RHF1 is not allowed to raise his foot significantly, bending at the knee, and deliver to 1B unless accompanied by immediate foot action toward 1B. The LHF1, however, is allowed to bend that knee and raise that foot considerably before stepping to 1B. His foot movement toward 1B need not be immediate. While that is how the rule is interpreted and applied under all sets of rules, NCAA has taken the time to best address this common application of the rule where they state in 9-3-C1 :
[my emphasis] The RHF1 is provided the same latitude to 3B as the LHF1 is provided to 1B. That is custom and practice in all of baseball---has been since I started playing ball in 1956, and is unlikely to change. Just my opinion, Freix
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Thu May 08, 2003, 12:58pm
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I agree
I agree that the RH move to first is different from the LH move to first, but my comment was simply to address the "hanging" knee, foot by a LH pitcher.
If he stops during his move to step toward first then he has balked. Many many umpires think the LH pitcher can do anything he wants and its not a balk simply because he is a LH pitcher. The NCAA as you described has addressed it, hopefully others will follow suit to help umpires to call this more consistently. Thanks David
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Sat May 10, 2003, 12:13pm
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FED rules say that a pitcher MUST deliver to the batter in a continuous manner after starting ANY motion habitually associated with his delivery.
My question is this. Is the raising of the knee straight up a motion habitually used in a delivery. Im most cases yes. With this being said, why would it be OK for a LHP to raise his knee then throw to first, but not a RHP? No hanging of the knee, just raising and then going to the base. I like the NCAA rule. However, in FED, how is this different. I know how it is usually called, and that is inconsistently. Is the bending of a knee part of a delivery, or is the delivery started when you move towards home? The rules are unclear. TOP in the set position is any motion after the set that commits you to throw home. What does that mean?
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Sat May 10, 2003, 12:45pm
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Tim,
Hey, I'm just trying to learn here. I'm not looking for a debate, I'm just trying to get things right. I can understand that it is two separate movements. I also understand that the NCAA writes about the base you are facing in their rules. I just want to know about FED rules. If it is two movements, then why do LHP get more leniency in this case?
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Sat May 10, 2003, 01:30pm
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Re: OK,
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__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Sat May 10, 2003, 01:35pm
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What leniency?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Sat May 10, 2003, 05:26pm
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Pretend you're in the yard playing catch with the kids. After a series of throws, you get to a [position where one kid is standing "behind" you. To thorw to that kid, you turn and throw. IT's (approxiamtely) that move that's allowed by a RH pitcher to first (or a LH pitcher) to third. After another seires of throws, one you are facing one kid and the other is off to your left(if you throw RH). As yuo first start to throw the ball, someone takes your picture. As you look at the picture later, you can't tell whether you are going to throw to the kid facing you, or to the kid off to your side -- the initial move is the same. That's what hapend with a RH pitcher to third or a LH pitcher to first -- since the initial move is the same, it doesn't commit the pitcher to either spot. Yes, the NCAA has described it best. But, the interp is the same in all codes.
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