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Thu May 01, 2003, 09:16am
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This has been discussed in our area. I have not seen it happen, but apparently a couple of coaches have taught their pitchers this move. FED Rules, runner on first with a right-handed pitcher. The pitcher comes set and very quickly raises his back foot (to about the height of his knee) and then steps back off the rubber and attempts to pick the runner off of first. I have had some umpires tell me that this is legal because he does step back off the rubber. I disagree with them for two reasons. Number one is that it is done in an attempt to deceive the runner. Number two is because the rule states that the pitcher must clearly step back. Quickly raising the foot to the level of the knee and then stepping off is not clearly back to me.
What are some of your opinions? 
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Thu May 01, 2003, 09:28am
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Quote:
2) Did the pitcher "lift his pivot foot in a step backward off the pitcher's plate?" (6-1-3) -- it looks to me like he did. What specific part of 6-1 or 6-2-4 do you think the pitcher violated? And, what runner is fooled by this?
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Thu May 01, 2003, 11:30am
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That's what I am wondering?? How is this move deceptive. I've always coached that if the back foot moves you go back to the base. You'd have to have a pretty stupid runner and a drunk first base coach to get fooled on this move.
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Thu May 01, 2003, 11:51am
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I saw this move in a HS varsity game in the Houston area and the only person fooled by this move was the base ump, who called a balk.
The pitcher can use every trick in his bag to decieve the runners as long as they are legal. But then again, most pickoffs are the result of good moves by the pitcher or too big a lead by the runners or both.
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Gman48
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Thu May 01, 2003, 01:06pm
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The first move on a pickoff attempt to any base from the rubber must be a step toward the base. If F1 lifts his pivot foot off the pitcher's plate and throws or fakes to a base BEFORE that foot hits the ground behind the rubber, we've got a balk.
This is really no different than a "jump and spin" move; except in slow motion. Could very well be that the Base Ump made the correct call. Jerry
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Thu May 01, 2003, 08:50pm
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How does a right handed batter in the set position lift his foot up and throw to first before putting it back down? Won't he fall over?
"This is really no different than a "jump and spin" move; except in slow motion." It certainly is different. In the "jump and spin" , the pitcher will be able to throw , if he gains appreciable distance or leads and plants his foot first. In your scenario, the pitcher will have to pick hisself off the ground. Something does not sound right here. If the pitcher steps backward off the plate, slow or quick, he can throw anywhere. If he steps backward off the plate and throws to a base without planting his foot, well I don't know how thats possible.
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Fri May 02, 2003, 10:02am
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If raising the pivot foot to the knee during the act of stepping backward off the plate is a balk, then would you consider a LHF1 who raises his nonpivot foot to the knee before he steps to 1B as having balked?
It seems that there is precedent set that raising the foot to the knee before replanting the foot is still part of stepping and is not a balk for the mere fact alone. Cerainly in your scenario the pitcher is not allowed to throw to the base before the pivot hits the ground behind the rubber. That is, it's illegal to use the nonpivot foot as a pivot foot until having legally disengaged the rubber. Freix
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Fri May 02, 2003, 10:08am
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the pitcher is not allowed to throw to the base before the pivot hits the ground behind the rubber. That is, it's illegal to use the nonpivot foot as a pivot foot until having legally disengaged the rubber.
Freix He is not even allowed to FAKE to first before the pivot hits the ground behind the rubber. CORRECT?
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"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Fri May 02, 2003, 11:20am
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Quote:
Rarely called when it's a quick continuous motion (because you can't really tell). And -- if you use the "quote" icon at the bottom of the post to which you are replying (and then delete the extraneous stuff), your posts will be easier to read.
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Fri May 02, 2003, 11:25am
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[How does a right handed batter in the set position lift his foot up and throw to first before putting it back down? Won't he fall over?
"This is really no different than a "jump and spin" move; except in slow motion." It certainly is different. In the "jump and spin" , the pitcher will be able to throw , if he gains appreciable distance or leads and plants his foot first. In your scenario, the pitcher will have to pick hisself off the ground. Something does not sound right here. If the pitcher steps backward off the plate, slow or quick, he can throw anywhere. If he steps backward off the plate and throws to a base without planting his foot, well I don't know how thats possible] I'm with Jicecone! I don't see how the pitcher can throw anywhere without first planting his foot. The pitcher is even required to ground the pivot foot before separating his hands.
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Gman48
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Fri May 02, 2003, 11:34am
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Cool Bob, tx.
Didn't know bout the quote button. But it looks like a bunch of jibberish. I'm sure I'll eventually learn how to use it if I stay on this forum. Also, do you just like to pick me apart or somethin'? Everytime I reply to something, it seems like it! I was just confirming the fact about "not even allowed to FAKE to first before the pivot hits the ground behind the rubber". And Trojan, try it going to third as a right handed pitcher! Very possible to seperate hands and throw b4 pivot foot hits the ground! [Edited by thumpferee on May 2nd, 2003 at 11:39 AM]
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