Being Lotsa balk talk.....

chris s · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 01:34pm

This one I called a few years ago at an 11-12 OBR allstar tourney. I was BU with a very rookie PU. Bottom 9th, tied at something R3. F1 is staring down R3 while off the rubber, Batter has one foot out box getting signs. F1 does not even look towards plate, engages in windup and delivers. I call a balk, but it seems shoulda been illegal pitch, which is a balk with runners on base.See 8.05(e). Preventive officiating could prevent this, but OBR really has no set in stone, "hold up F1" like FED does.Rookie PU throws me to the wolves, I got followed to car and chewed upon. My feeling was he shoulda held up the F1 when he saw batter was definately not reasonably set in the box. Oh well....move on

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 01:49pm

I do not do OBR games, but common sense to me is to put up the "do not pitch" signal until the batter gets into box. You can also tell the better to "hurry up" so that this can also not happen. But when it is clear that the pitcher is not paying attention to do this. And if the pitcher pitches the ball while your hand is up, just go out to the mound and explain what your hand up means. Kids at that level do not always know better. You have to remember, they are just learning the game.

Peace

DownTownTonyBrown · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 03:32pm

Pitcher did nothing wrong (assuming he had taken his signal earlier) - proper delivery from the rubber. Batter was not ready.

As the plate umpire, if you see the wind-up coming and the batter is not ready... as Rut says hold up the no pitch signal. If the pitcher continues...

GET OUT FROM BEHIND THE CATCHER YELLING "NO PITCH."

As the Base Umpire, in this case, you are at the mercy of the Plate Umpire. It is his responsibility to protect the batter. If he doesn't (and there may be reasons- besides inexperience, that he is not protecting the batter) then you must live with his call. The BU cannot call a quick RETURN pitch. Unless you can convince everyone that the pitcher did something wrong that was worthy of a BALK call, then you made the wrong call.

At the time it would have been beneficial for the two umpires to meet and discuss the scenario. Leave that meeting having agreed that this was a no pitch/dead ball situation and that a balk, pick-off attempt, etc are not possible answers. Put the batter in the box and the runner on 3rd. Make the ball live and move on.

I'm sorry that the dogs chased you out of the parking lot. That is never a good situation. And your partner is on your team; he should have been right with you... defending and protecting you.

Had a similar chase to end my HS season last year. Was in a different school district working the plate for a State play-in district championship game. Winning run was on 3rd during extra innings. Pitcher was on the rubber and dropped the ball (How often do you see that?). Home district partner calls the balk. It was an anticlimatic ending for the players and for the fans (and surely for the pitcher). But it was pretty heated for us getting through the fans to our vehicles in the parking lot. I feel for you... and your partner that left you hanging.

chris s · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 06:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Pitcher did nothing wrong (assuming he had taken his signal earlier) - proper delivery from the rubber. Batter was not ready.

As the plate umpire, if you see the wind-up coming and the batter is not ready... as Rut says hold up the no pitch signal. If the pitcher continues...

GET OUT FROM BEHIND THE CATCHER YELLING "NO PITCH."

As the Base Umpire, in this case, you are at the mercy of the Plate Umpire. It is his responsibility to protect the batter. If he doesn't (and there may be reasons- besides inexperience, that he is not protecting the batter) then you must live with his call. The BU cannot call a quick RETURN pitch. Unless you can convince everyone that the pitcher did something wrong that was worthy of a BALK call, then you made the wrong call.

At the time it would have been beneficial for the two umpires to meet and discuss the scenario. Leave that meeting having agreed that this was a no pitch/dead ball situation and that a balk, pick-off attempt, etc are not possible answers. Put the batter in the box and the runner on 3rd. Make the ball live and move on.

I'm sorry that the dogs chased you out of the parking lot. That is never a good situation. And your partner is on your team; he should have been right with you... defending and protecting you.

Had a similar chase to end my HS season last year. Was in a different school district working the plate for a State play-in district championship game. Winning run was on 3rd during extra innings. Pitcher was on the rubber and dropped the ball (How often do you see that?). Home district partner calls the balk. It was an anticlimatic ending for the players and for the fans (and surely for the pitcher). But it was pretty heated for us getting through the fans to our vehicles in the parking lot. I feel for you... and your partner that left you hanging.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
DTTB, F1 DID do something wrong, refer to 8.05(e). I do agree with the way it should have been handled, I screwed the pooch, by being the senior ump and not killing the "play" before it happened. BUT, by rule an illegal pitch. The pitchers dad is a PONY Field Director, he called me and agreed on the ruling and suggested to kill it before it happens to save all the crap. I DO agree. I basically tossed this out to have comment and instruction for our younger blues.....

Whowefoolin · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 11:17pm

Be alert and see that the batter is taking signs legally (one foot in box) and pitcher is starting something.

Hold up a hand to let pitcher know not to pitch. This would have eleviated everything.

However, you were the BU. So, pitcher pitching without the batter ready...illegal pitch. Ball to the batter. No balk.

bob jenkins · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 07:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by Whowefoolin
Be alert and see that the batter is taking signs legally (one foot in box) and pitcher is starting something.

Hold up a hand to let pitcher know not to pitch. This would have eleviated everything.

However, you were the BU. So, pitcher pitching without the batter ready...illegal pitch. Ball to the batter. No balk.

Not correct -- as Chris stated, this is a balk with runners on base.

See 2.00 Quick Pitch and 8.05(e)

DownTownTonyBrown · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 12:49pm

I don't have access to OBR 8.05(e). What does it say?

If the PU was holding his hand up for no pitch... what can happen? Is this not a deadball? FED mechanic shows the no pitch signal and says "Do not pitch, the ball is dead."

While the PU's NO PITCH signal is up:
Can the pitcher make a pick-off attempt? Can the BU call a balk?

In FED ball I would answer "No" to both of these questions. What is the ruling in OBR?

tucktheump · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 04:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I don't have access to OBR 8.05(e). What does it say?

If the PU was holding his hand up for no pitch... what can happen? Is this not a deadball? FED mechanic shows the no pitch signal and says "Do not pitch, the ball is dead."

While the PU's NO PITCH signal is up:
Can the pitcher make a pick-off attempt? Can the BU call a balk?

In FED ball I would answer "No" to both of these questions. What is the ruling in OBR?

There is no "hold up F1" in professional baseball. That is not a mechanic taught. In this case, OBR, directs you to call a balk. The base umpire would most likely have the best look at the pitcher's feet in this case. A balk should be called as soon as he begins his delivery.

chris s · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 07:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tucktheump

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
I don't have access to OBR 8.05(e). What does it say?

If the PU was holding his hand up for no pitch... what can happen? Is this not a deadball? FED mechanic shows the no pitch signal and says "Do not pitch, the ball is dead."

While the PU's NO PITCH signal is up:
Can the pitcher make a pick-off attempt? Can the BU call a balk?

In FED ball I would answer "No" to both of these questions. What is the ruling in OBR?

There is no "hold up F1" in professional baseball. That is not a mechanic taught. In this case, OBR, directs you to call a balk. The base umpire would most likely have the best look at the pitcher's feet in this case. A balk should be called as soon as he begins his delivery.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! Finally!
Bout time someone got this correct. At the 11-12 level, it is a courtesy, NOT a requirement.If we got OBR. Now FED is different. Know how much crap I got from this call???? True, not one I wanna make, BUT.......

cowbyfan1 · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 04:42am

I gotta agree that balk was proper as the BU in this as it turned out since F1 did quick pitch. In the future if PU is not giving a do not pitch signal and you as BU sees that, call time and go up and clean off the rubber or something. A little preventive officiating/game management I think that falls under.
I had a situation in a 2-1 ball game in the top half of the last inning with 2 outs and the batter so far back that both feet would have been out of the box if there had been one. I whispered to the batter to move up cuz if he makes contact I will call him out for being out of the box. I told him that is not the way to end a game. Next pitch he K'd but imagine the mess if he had made contact with out the move up warning. Would I have done this in the 6th inning instead of the 7th? No batter on his own there.