IINITBTSB?

[Mike Ricketts]

OBR (LL Jrs.), bases loaded, 1 out, pitcher in set position and has come set. F4 breaks for 2B and F1 flinches his upper body as if turning to throw in that direction, without separating his hands or lifting his leg. F1 then apparently thinks better of throwing to 2B and returns his focus (and squares his shoulders) to 3B, and is motionless again before beginning a delivery (at which time the umpire wakes up and balks the flinch toward 2B).

My immediate reaction on calling it was that it was a feint to 2B without a step, and therefore a balk. But It Is Impossible to Balk to Second Base! Is that because a feint usually can't be distinguished from the start of a pitching motion, and thus can't be considered a balk "to 2B," as opposed to a balk for failing to complete the delivery? Here, if that sneaky little F4 was letting us in on what F1 was thinking, has he unwittingly disproven the theorem that IIITBTSB?

By the way, this was a balk, right?

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Tim C
Gotta work on this . . .

You made it quite clear:

"F1 flinches his upper body as if turning to throw in that direction, without separating his hands or lifting his leg."

It is an immediate balk for failing to pitch.

Come ON! This wasn't even tough!

Not even close to IIITBTSB.

Tee

Hmmmm..............
Another fine example of how some seem to confuse the less knowledgeable with their continued advocacy of IIITBTSB.

IT IS VERY POSSIBLE to balk when making a move to 2B.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[Rog]

Hey pitcher, do one or the other (i.e. either throw over to 2nd, or pitch); but, do not try to do both.
"BALK!!!", all day long.....

[jicecone]

"IIITBTSB."

Bfair, I doth believe you stated that incorrectly. It should be, IIVPTBWMAMTSB.

Before long we will be able to recite the rule book in 2,347 letters or or less.

[Mike Ricketts]

Tee, let me see if I have this right:

Even with his flinch toward 2B, F1 would not have balked if had returned his shoulders square to 3B and then continued forward with a pitching motion. (Not that it would have been much of a pitch.) So the "point of no return" that made this unmistakenly and irrevocably a balk was when he instead came to a 2nd stop. And that meant the balk was for failing to deliver a pitch!

IIITBTSB! IIITBTSB! IIITBTSB!

(This all assumes, of course, that the we were analyzing this move via instant replay in slow motion.)

P.S. to Steve Freix -- don't jump on Tee for his campaign of disinformation. I think anyone who bothers to parse through these discussions of IIITBTSB recognizes it for what it is -- an intellectual game that makes us think a little more about exactly what defines a balk and what motions are or are not allowed. Answering yes or no really doesn't matter, as long as you know why you answer a particular way.

[Jeff Davis]

Okay, I'll bite. As a new poster/reader here, what does IIITBTSB mean?

[Striker991]

Okay, watch closely:

It Is Impossible To Balk To Second Base.

I I I T B T S B

[MAC]

Don't believe all you read on the internet a balk is possible, to second base and I have seen it called. At the college level Div. 1

mac

[David B]

Okay, a D1 one umpire called the balk -

what did F1 do that made it a balk?

Curious.

Thanks
David

[Whowefoolin]

iiitbtsbibs (is bs)

If you flinch with a runner on first, is that a balk to first? Who cares, he flinched. It could have been a flinch to the plate. But WHO CARES.

If you don't step directly to first, is that a balk to first or the batter? Who are you trying to deceive? First base runner right?

If you flinch with a runner on second, is that a balk to second? Who cares, he flinched. It could have been a flinch to the plate. But WHO CARES.

If there is a runner on second and you balk, are you trying to deceive the batter? No, the runner. That is what a balk is...the deception of a runner. So you do anything that is a balk with a runner on second...it is a balk to second.

So get rid of iiitbtsb and start saying iiptbtsb and be a real umpire. Stand behind what you call panzies. I would love to be umping with you when you have a lone runner on second, and call a balk, but say it was a balk to the batter, because the pitcher can't balk to second (and I am not talking about dropping the ball while on the rubber scenario).

[gmtomko]

Kind of makes you wonder where all of the baseball myths that we have to deal with come from. i.e. "the hands are part of the bat"; "tie goes to the runner'; "ball that hits the plate is foul"; "position of fielder's feet when he touches the ball determines fair or foul"; "runner is not out if batted ball contacts him while standing on base (other than infield fly)" etc. etc.

There are enough 'mechanical' requirements to a pitcher's actions on the mound that messing any one up is a balk regardless of what base a runner is on or is attempting to steal.

Intellectual pursuits are healthy especially if they enlighten. However, if the objective is to prove or disprove this 'theory', those that seek to prove that you can't balk to second will resist making a call that should be made.

G

[David B]

Sure a balk is a balk and the problem with most umpires is that they do NOT call them.

But as an education process it is really a great statement that "you can't balk to second base."

Basically this is saying that the spin moves, the step the jump etc., are ALL legal to second.

Many many many many umpires (and not just young umpires)make the mistake of calling a balk on the move to second and usually all of the time they were just fooled by an unusual move that in reality was not a balk.

So a balk is a balk, but in reality it is very difficult to balk on a move to second base.

Thanks
David

[chris s]

Ok, I'll bite as well. F1, while engaged, fails to step towards second when throwing. R2 all by hisself. Some say, balk to second. Some say balk. I say balk by the F1 to decieve the R2. Quite simple. F1 does not "balk to a base", he balks to decieve a runner. So now we got IIITBTAB. LOL.....

[MAC]

The NCAA '03 baseball rules clinic CD has the play in question it's under pitching violations last situation, USC vs TEN , man on second pitcher starts from the set, lift's his leg and start's his front leg towards home plate and before it touches the ground he spins to second to play on the runner on second base, Called a "Balk" Dave Yeast said this is from the previous year's clinic but is so important to revist it, that it is again a point of emphasis.

Well seeing is believing and Dave Yeast is the NCAA point man for the last couple of season's with umpire's, the CD is sold by epic sports software cost is $4.95 plus shipping and is listed a lot on E-bay, they also sell a CD for college two and three man mechanics for $29.95, I'am not trying to market the item's but both are great tools.


I once believed it was almost impossible to balk to second, flinch, drop the ball etc but this clip opened my eyes to say the least, But in youth ball calling that balk might be a hard sell, esp. if they get an out.

Thank's to the NCAA, and DAVE YEAST for providing such a useful tool for other umpires to learn from.

Mac

[Edited by MAC on Apr 22nd, 2003 at 02:28 PM]

[thumpferee]

I'm gonna beat the horse some more !
"THAT'S A BALK"!!!!!!!!!!!