Ever Seen This Before?

[Rufus]

Former coach whose son played in a 13U scrimmage yesterday. The opposing pitcher for the second game did not engage the front of the pitcher's plate when getting signs or pitching, but maybe placed his right toe on the very back left edge of the plate (portable mound so no "dugout" in front of the plate). At first it didn't appear he was engaged at all while receiving and/or pitching, but he never did try to quick pitch or deceive/pick-off in any way other than pitchers normally do when they engage the front of the plate.

The PU questioned him about it and he said he was touching the plate (only one umpire working for the scrimmage).

Anyone ever see something like that? I've not had a chance to review any rules on it but I'm thinking if he's engaged with any part of the plate he's ok. Definitely a first for me as either spectator or coach.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Former coach whose son played in a 13U scrimmage yesterday. The opposing pitcher for the second game did not engage the front of the pitcher's plate when getting signs or pitching, but maybe placed his right toe on the very back left edge of the plate (portable mound so no "dugout" in front of the plate). At first it didn't appear he was engaged at all while receiving and/or pitching, but he never did try to quick pitch or deceive/pick-off in any way other than pitchers normally do when they engage the front of the plate.

The PU questioned him about it and he said he was touching the plate (only one umpire working for the scrimmage).

Anyone ever see something like that? I've not had a chance to review any rules on it but I'm thinking if he's engaged with any part of the plate he's ok. Definitely a first for me as either spectator or coach.

While getting signs? Huh?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Former coach whose son played in a 13U scrimmage yesterday. The opposing pitcher for the second game did not engage the front of the pitcher's plate when getting signs or pitching, but maybe placed his right toe on the very back left edge of the plate (portable mound so no "dugout" in front of the plate). At first it didn't appear he was engaged at all while receiving and/or pitching, but he never did try to quick pitch or deceive/pick-off in any way other than pitchers normally do when they engage the front of the plate.

The PU questioned him about it and he said he was touching the plate (only one umpire working for the scrimmage).

Anyone ever see something like that? I've not had a chance to review any rules on it but I'm thinking if he's engaged with any part of the plate he's ok. Definitely a first for me as either spectator or coach.

In OBR he only has to be touching the plate.

[ozzy6900]

1. And how do you know exactly when the pitcher is taking his signs?
2. Is the catcher calling the game or the coach?
3. Did you know that there is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

1. And how do you know exactly when the pitcher is taking his signs?
2. Is the catcher calling the game or the coach?
3. Did you know that there is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber?

1. Because he would lean over his front leg and squint into see the signs just like a pitcher would who has engaged the plate "normally"
2. Coach relayed signs to catcher
3. Yes, having had to explain that rule many times to team parents during games, but my concern wasn't so much with that. It was more for the sake of our baserunners not knowing when he was/wasn't engaged. He didn't try anything sneaky in terms of a pick-off, though, so it didn't affect the game. Just, like I said, thought it was odd and had never seen something like that before.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Rufus

1. Because he would lean over his front leg and squint into see the signs just like a pitcher would who has engaged the plate "normally"

If he's not on the rubber, you're looking at a balk for this.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yawetag

If he's not on the rubber, you're looking at a balk for this.

For what?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

For what?

Derp. Was thinking without the ball.

[ozzy6900]

Sigh....

Another simple rule (and this one without a penalty) and everyone wants to complicate everything. We as umpires do not know when the pitcher is taking his signs because we are not inside the pitcher's head. Maybe its a sign, maybe it's not. We as umpires shouldn't even get involved unless a manager is raising a question and then we should be setting everyone straight. We should only be watching for the quick pitch or any other illegal moves that the pitcher may commit that would result in a safety issue or a balk.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Sigh....

Another simple rule (and this one without a penalty) and everyone wants to complicate everything. We as umpires do not know when the pitcher is taking his signs because we are not inside the pitcher's head. Maybe its a sign, maybe it's not. We as umpires shouldn't even get involved unless a manager is raising a question and then we should be setting everyone straight. We should only be watching for the quick pitch or any other illegal moves that the pitcher may commit that would result in a safety issue or a balk.

Read the way the FED rule is written.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Read the way the FED rule is written.

Really? I suggest you do the same ... and/or quote where it differs from what Ozzy said.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Really? I suggest you do the same ... and/or quote where it differs from what Ozzy said.

Read it several times. Why I said read the way it is written. I personally think it contradicts itself, but you're the expert on everything.

Some say it is a balk, some say it isn't. Caio, bella............

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Read it several times. Why I said read the way it is written. I personally think it contradicts itself, but you're the expert on everything.

Cool - didn't know that.

Some say it is a balk, some say it isn't. Caio, bella............

If the book says it's a balk, it's a balk. If it doesn't, it's not. What in this rule makes you think this is a balk?

Rules of making a Peanut Butter Sandwich.
1) You must put peanut butter on one slice of bread.
2) You must put the 2 pieces of bread together.

So, if I put peanut butter on my spoon, lick the spoon, and then put peanut butter on one slice of bread, followed by putting the pieces of bread together... have I now successfully made a peanut butter sandwich? Or did my tasting of the peanut butter first turn my sandwich into something else?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Cool - didn't know that.

If the book says it's a balk, it's a balk. If it doesn't, it's not. What in this rule makes you think this is a balk?

Rules of making a Peanut Butter Sandwich.
1) You must put peanut butter on one slice of bread.
2) You must put the 2 pieces of bread together.

So, if I put peanut butter on my spoon, lick the spoon, and then put peanut butter on one slice of bread, followed by putting the pieces of bread together... have I now successfully made a peanut butter sandwich? Or did my tasting of the peanut butter first turn my sandwich into something else?

Now you're just being insane. Take a gander at 6-1-0. I believe it says pitching regulations start when the pitcher toes the rubber.

6-3-0 discusses balks and mentions taking signs off the rubber.

I think it condtradicts itself about pitching regulations and balks. I'm in the camp it isn't a balk. Others say it is.

Not sure I have the right rule citations, but I don't care. Now go make yourself a peanut butter sandwich, take a deep breath to calm dowm, READ them and see what you think, and quit trying to be a pain in people's behind.

However, if this was on a FED test, they would more than likely say it is a balk.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Now you're just being insane. Take a gander at 6-1-0. I believe it says pitching regulations start when the pitcher toes the rubber.

6-3-0 discusses balks and mentions taking signs off the rubber.

I think it condtradicts itself about pitching regulations and balks. I'm in the camp it isn't a balk. Others say it is.

Not sure I have the right rule citations, but I don't care. Now go make yourself a peanut butter sandwich, take a deep breath to calm dowm, READ them and see what you think, and quit trying to be a pain in people's behind.

However, if this was on a FED test, they would more than likely say it is a balk.

Hmmm... I've been nothing but cordial to you. Why is it that any conversation anyone has with you degenerates like this? Insane? No... and you kind of made my point for me. Yes - pitching regulations start when the pitcher toes the rubber ... so how in the world could what he's doing BEFORE toeing the rubber be a balk? That was my point with the sandwich. I know what I think. And for the record, until you started , I was completely calm.