I had to tell one of my players to lie
 

Last night my catcher got called out on strikes to end an inning. Since he knows the strikezone so well, I asked him if he thought the pitch was inside. He said, "I thought it was, but I will just try to see if our pitcher can get that call too." During the next half inning, I noticed him having a discussion with PU. After the inning ended, I asked what was being said. He told me that PU had asked him where he thought the pitch was. When he told him he felt like it was inside, PU started to argue with him and told him not to question his judgement. I told him if he is ever asked that again to simply say, "It was a good pitch." I did not bring up the subject with PU at any time during the game, but I feel that if he does not want an honest answer from a player, he should not ask a question.

Any thoughts?

Wow, I only work basketball, but this ranks up there as one of the most unprofessional approaches I can imagine. Top five, at least.

What part?

Peace

I agree. If I ask the catcher where he thought the pitch was, I want to know.

I'm missing something here.

Why on Earth would I, as the PU, ask the batter where he thought the pitch was that got him kayed? Yeah, yeah, he's your catcher the next half inning, which is all the more reason not to go there. Nothing good can result in that conversation.

Now, a smart catcher will may say something like, "Man, I guess I was too close to the dish on that one", and let that be it. If the PU wants to add some input, then the catcher can agree, and now you've a happy PU. Happy PU's call more strikes with happy catchers. Good catchers know how to "work" umpires, and vice versa.

I'm only going there if either a) F2 goes there or b) I know F2 is going there, and I can deal with it preemptively.

But I'd never take an approach of snapping back unless something very wrong was said. Hey, I asked the question, I better be able to deal with his answer no matter what he says (at least almost everything he could say).

The part where he jumped on the catcher for answering a stupid question.

I do not even know why he asked the question. That is why I was wondering what part did you find unprofessional. Then again this is after all one side of the story, so it might not have gone off totally that way. The entire situation seems a little fishy.

Peace

As PU, I would never ask that question. If somehow it popped out of my mouth and I didn't get an answer I liked, shame on me.

It's like the umpire that gets through a tough situation, has it defused, then between innings takes it upon himself to bring it back up with coach. Then gets offended when coach says something he doesn't like.

IF the home plate umpire actually asked the question in the first place. More than likely since the catcher had approached the subject in the dugout before taking his place defensively, he probably was the one to bring up the subject behind the dish as well. I very highly doubt the umpire asked the guy that just struck out looking where he thought the pitch was.

Then of course the umpire is going to tell the kid to stop arguing balls and strikes. Especially with the attitude the catcher apparently has ("see if our pitcher gets the same calls"). He's lucky he didn't get ejected right there!

That is why I said it sounds fishy. It sounds like if there was a question it was based on something the catcher either wanted to talk about or made some comment that sparked a question. Either way I do not know for sure and anything is possible, but it sounds a little more to me than an umpire just asking a question out of the blue.

Peace

I think there's more to this story than we're being told. And very possibly this coach doesn't have all of the facts from his catcher. My guess is that the catcher must have said something to the PU about the call.

Tim.

True enough. One wonders whether the catcher initiated the conversation. Either way, responding with that question seems unprofessional, and the response to the answer even worse. If you don't want to know, don't ask and just remind him not to argue BAS.

Consider this scenario:

"I can't believe you rung me up on that, blue."

"Well, where do you think the pitch was?"

"Way inside."

"Don't argue my strikezone, son."

More believable to me..............

Tim.

Considering what F2 said as he left the dugout, my guess is that the first sentence was along the lines of:
"I hope my pitcher gets that pitch too."

As most here know, I crossed over to the dark side a few years ago and coach my son's ball team in addition to umpiring a crazy Spring schedule. I never liked it when a coach would say, "I need that strike too." when I called it on one of his batters. I swore I would never do it. I then did just that. It is pretty hard not to see a different strike zone when you are in a coach's box. I;m sure I'll do it again too. (sigh)

I don't believe I have ever asked a catcher what he thought of my calls when he was batting. I may have asked him what was up after one of his teammates was rung up and the bench was louder than normal. Usually, catchers at my level are smarter than I would have been at their age. Most know that it's best to keep me happy. I try to do the same with them.

Assuming the F2 is telling the truth. ;) Based on my experiences with teenagers including my son, I thinks not.

From A League of Their Own.

"That pitch might been a ball yesterday. It might be a ball tomorrow. But, today it's a strike."

Instead of asking that, I would reply with "I can believe it, because I had it as a strike".

You don't know all umpires then. There are untrained, unprofessional umpires all over the place, and I would not be surprised if this happened.

And I know a lot of players and coaches and they will twist any innocent comment or conversation into something it never was intended to be. I just would not be surprised if this was not as simple as it was made out to be from the beginning of this thread.

Peace

Yep. I can think of several guys around here who would say something like that.

I don't do it all the time, but if I ring up a good catcher on a close one, when he comes out I may ask him where he thought it was or just flat out ask him if I missed it. I'm talking about your solid F2 that knows the zone well. I've probably been BS'ing w/ him anyway and I want to keep the mood light, prevent problems. Game management, imo.

"Since he knows the strike zone so well..."
Please. He's either a catcher or an umpire, and usually someone who purports to be both isn't very good at either.

JJ

A GOOD catcher knows a strike when he catches it, and doesn't say anything when he does not get the call for his pitcher, or when marginal pitch is called against him, and he swings at marginal pitches with 2 strikes.

I never intiate that type of conversation. If I feel I missed one bad, I may give them a look maybe an eye roll, and the good ones will know. And a very good one will say nothing. When a coach questions his catcher a great F2 will concur with my call. maybe they have a conversation back in the dugout, but not in the open.

I have had catchers come back out and make a polite comment about a pitch I may have rung them up on. I simply reply "If you were back here you would have wanted that pitch as a strike yourself."

Usually they nod and we move on.