fan interference?

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A ball is hit into deep left field. The left fielder runs back attempting to catch the ball in the air. The left field fence is a low fence. The left fielder jumps up and stands on the fence. The ball soars higher than him. As he jumps up off of the fence in his attempt to catch the ball, a fan purposelly pushes him uppward or in any way assists him to catch the ball. Interferance?out?Home Run? Whats the call?

My name is Mishone Feigin. I am twelve years old. I just generated this question all by my self. I play PONY basseball in california. I usually play second base (most of the time), short stop, or center field. I have allways been interested in these kinds of interference questions and like any question. Please respond.I would appreciate any coments or questions. Thanks so much!

[greymule]

Though he would have to be quite an acrobat, a fielder could legally jump to the top of the fence and catch a ball while standing there. However, if the fans lifted him up, he couldn't make a legal catch. It would be the same as if he made the catch after falling into the stands. I'd allow the catch if he was standing on the fence and fans were merely touching him, or if he jumped from the top of the fence and appeared to make the catch on his own.

I have never actually seen this play, but if it occurred in your Pony League, I hope the umpires got it right.

How would you call this one, which involved Frank Robinson in Yankee Stadium in the 1960s? In those days, the left and right field fences in Yankee Stadium were only about three feet high.

Bottom of the ninth, two out, Yankees trailing by a run with one runner on. Ball hit to deep right field. Frank Robinson went back to the fence, jumped high, caught the ball, and then fell into the stands and disappeared behind the fence. After about five full seconds, he reappeared among a crowd of fans behind the fence and showed the umpire the ball in his glove. If you were the ump, how would you have called that play?

[woolnojg]

Knowing Frank - Give him the catch.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by woolnojg
Knowing Frank - Give him the catch.

Wow! You knew Frank Robinson!

If the ball was in his mitt when he went out of sight, I suppose I would assume that he held onto it and give him the catch... even without knowing him.

[greymule]

It took Frank a long time to get up and show the ball, and the Yankee manager (can't remember who it was) went crazy. Naturally, the Yankees assumed that Robinson had spent the time retrieving the ball from under the seats. The umpire was in a tough spot. Whatever he called, somebody was going to explode.

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hi greymule, thanks for responding to my questiaon - i propably would have called it a catch knowing how much effort and speed the older players of baseball put into there game. i would not say they were BETTER than modern players, but i have seen many old players play on tape and i have experience them to be fast and full of effoprt.Not to say the modern players atrent. many of them are. how did the ump call it? thanks greymule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by greymule
It took Frank a long time to get up and show the ball, and the Yankee manager (can't remember who it was) went crazy. Naturally, the Yankees assumed that Robinson had spent the time retrieving the ball from under the seats. The umpire was in a tough spot. Whatever he called, somebody was going to explode.

I think the CS&FP answer is to rule it a double and place the other runner at third.

Oh, sorry -- that's Pete's answer.

[greymule]

The umps gave Robinson the catch and the Orioles the game. Maybe the umps felt that since Frank was in possession of the ball when he went out of sight, the catch was valid, sort of like a ball that leaves the park fair and then curves foul. However, they did wait until he came up with the ball before they gave the out sign, which contradicts that theory.

The play could not happen today in MLB, because all fences in fair territory are too high for a player to jump or fall over. But the fences in foul territory are low enough.

This brings up another interesting play that I went through 25 years ago with Rich Marazzi, who had written a book on baseball rulings:

Abel on 3B, no outs. Baker hits a soft foul fly that F3 chases toward the fence a little beyond the dugout. F3, running hard, makes the catch, hurdles the fence, remains on his feet, and from the box seats fires to F2 to get Abel, who had tagged up after the catch and tried to score. What's the call?

[Edited by greymule on Apr 13th, 2003 at 09:01 AM]

[snrmike]

In FED, I believe the ctach is awarded if it was ruled to be made with at least onefoot in the field of play. Runners are awarded one base if there are less than two outs when the player leaves the field of play entirely in possession of the ball.

My darned rule book is two blocks away right now and I don't have the exact wording. Sorry.

[greymule]

Forgot to specify the code: OBR.

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i think that if he cought the ball in foul territory but was still able to through to the catcher than the play is ok. but if P3 had gone out of sight when in the processes of catching the ball or after he cought it, i might have called abel safe at the plate depending on how long P3 was out of sight. What was the official call?

[greymule]

In OBR, the fielder is OK unless he falls down, so the runner would be out at home. Obviously, the fielder cannot go into the stands first and then make a catch.

[greymule]

I happened to come across this fortuitously this morning, from Rich Marazzi's Rules and Lore of Baseball.

"In the third game of the 1925 World Series played between the Pirates and Senators, the umpires had to rule on a controversial catch concerning Sam Rice.

"In the eighth inning, Fred Marberry went in to pitch for the Senators. Marberry proceeded to strike out the first two Pirates. Then Earl Smith stepped to the plate and drove a long fly to right-center field. The Senators' flychaser backpeddled as far as he could against the wall, and then suddenly the player, the ball, and the crowd all merged into one confusing picture. Sam Rice had fallen into the bleachers. The question was, did he catch it? There was a delay by Rice in getting out of the stands, and manager Bill McKechnie of the Pirates charged out of the dugout, protesting that Rice had dropped the ball and that it had been recovered for him by a spectator.

"After a long debate, the four umpires (McCormick, Moriarty, Owens, and Rigler) decided that Rice had caught the ball before he fell into the bleachers."

Cohen and Neft describe the play this way:

"Smith flied out on a very controversial play to Rice in the right-center field bleachers. Rice leaned over the fence, threw up his glove, and speared the ball. However, it looked like a homer as Rice failed to immediately return the ball. Umpire Rigler called the batter out as the Pirates argued that a fan must have given Rice the ball."

[TriggerMN]

Did they raise the fences in right field in Fenway Park this year? Last year, they were only about 3 feet high, could easily be fallen over. Same goes for down the lines in Dodger Stadium, just off the top of my head.

[greymule]

You might be right, TriggerMN. The fences at Fenway and Dodger Stadium certainly were low and may still be. It shows how little I watch baseball on TV today. As much of a fan as I was in my youth, I now watch virtually no baseball until the end of the season, and then it's mainly to watch the umpires.