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Mon Apr 07, 2003, 01:51pm
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I posted this scenario on the Softball site. But if the same situation occurred in a FED baseball game what's your call?
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FED Baseball seems to make a distinction for "intent" of the act 8-4-1a. Casebook play 8.4.1i makes this same distinction for intent. Play on. After some research the the correct response seems clear but would you have been ready? Anyone had this play or other unusual stuff yet this year?
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford 
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Mon Apr 07, 2003, 11:21pm
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I believe that 8-4-1d is a better rule reference for Fed.
Ball strikes bat a 2nd time, it's likely nothing. Bat strikes fair ball a 2nd time, it's likely intentional. In my 24 years of umpiring I've never seen a bat strike a fair ball a 2nd time out of the batter's hands when the bat had not been intentionally thrown toward the ball. Many years ago Fed did not require intent when the bat hit the fair ball, but somewhere along the line the rule got changed to include only intent. Just my opinion, Freix
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Tue Apr 08, 2003, 08:52pm
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As far as the bat striking the ball in fair territory a 2nd time and not be intentional, I had a play I didnt think was. Batter squares to bunt, lays down the bunt, and drops the bat as he heads to first. Batter didnt throw the bat, or toss it. Just bunted, maybe took a step and dropped the bat. The bat didnt roll, it just lay just inside the first base line. The ball slowly rolled up against the bat, and a soft "dink" was heard. The ball didnt change direction. It just rolled up against the bat. The catcher picked the ball up threw to first, too late to get the batter. Defensive coach of course came out on me, but I told him it wasnt intentional (as stated as the caveat in the rule book). Play on..........so I havent been doing this 24 years, but it was a fair ball, and the batter didnt throw or toss the bat.
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Wed Apr 09, 2003, 09:49am
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Quote:
P-Sz
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Wed Apr 09, 2003, 11:55pm
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Saw this at my 12 year olds softball game Saturday.Opposing player swings and ball hits right down to ground in box, hits her ankle, spins forward and bat hits ball. She was called out for bat striking ball. Good cal, if ump did not see it got her ankle. I kept my mouth shut.
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Thu Apr 10, 2003, 07:12am
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I ump both sports...
The softball rules DO NOT give any leeway or caveats in this case.
The thing is, first base was occupied. Why was B1 running to first, was it less than 2 outs? If so, the runners must return to their bases. If there were two outs, the batter would be out for interference, especially since the second contact definitely effected the play on the ball. This one is a tough call too, but I think it would be fair to say that runners should've stayed at the bases they occupied at the time of pitch, or the inning should've ended on interference.
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Snrmike
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Thu Apr 10, 2003, 12:38pm
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There seems to be some confusion.
There were 2 outs. All runners were advancing. There was only ONE contact with the bat. Pitch was completely missed by the batter. Catcher dropped the pitch. Batter drops the bat and it hits the ball which is in foul territory. Interference is the correct call for FED Softball Rule 8-2-6 in all dropped 3rd strike situations. Intention on the part of the batter should be part of your ruling in FED Baseball. No intent, play on. If you feel the batter intentionally dropped the bat on the ball, then he is out for intentional interference 8-4-1a. Tough call. Just hope that we are all ready when it happens. 
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Thu Apr 10, 2003, 01:02pm
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I Agree With You
It's kinda tough to say what you'd do in the heat of the moment. This one definitely depends on the judgement of the covering umpire.
Age group definitely plays a role (as much as we'd like to say we call everybody the same). If the covering umpire is convinced that the contact is unintentional, then nothing should be called. I do know coaches who coach players do drop a bat right in front of the plate on plays like this. To me, that's intentional. It is very difficult to judge one's intent though. I personally would've ended the inning on an interference play.
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Snrmike
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Fri Apr 11, 2003, 11:19am
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My own two cents worth . . . in the scenario listed (dropped 3rd strike - batter has the opportunity to run to 1st), I've got "strike three" and "batter out" when the ball hit the bat (or vice-versa). Analytically speaking, the batter did, in fact, intentionally cause the contact of bat with ball. He/she consciously and intentionally dropped the bat for the express purpose of running to 1st. BR has an obligation to drop the bat in a place/location that would not cause interference with a possible play. Indiscriminate dropping or throwing of a bat that could alter the outcome of a play needs to be dealt with appropriately; in this case, by calling an "out" for interfering with the catcher's attempt to throw to 1st base.
Jerry
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Sat Apr 12, 2003, 07:44am
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Re: "if the same situation occurred in a FED baseball game - what's your call?"
Situation: 2 outs, R1 (1st), R2 (2nd). Batter swings and misses 3rd strike, catcher drops the ball in front of her (behind the plate in foul territory). Batter heads for first and drops the bat down near the plate. The bat contacts the ball and knocks it well away toward the dugout. Nothing intentional - the batter was not even aware the ball had been contacted again. What we have for sure = a) dropped 3rd strike b) ball is in foul territory behind the plate c) batter "drops" their bat as they head to 1st base d) bat contacts ball in foul territory What we do not have = a) batter hitting a pitch b) a batted ball in fair or foul territory c) a bat intentionally or unintentionally striking a batted ball What we need = a) a batter who can hit a pitch b) a catcher who can catch a pitch Solution = Play on fella's - live ball situation caused by the catcher's incompetence..... jmo
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