How long would it take?

[harmbu]

How long would it take you to make the call on this play?

Runners on first and second with one out. High popup on the infield near the first base line about halfway between home and first. The plate umpire yells "infield fly, batter's out!" The first baseman misses the ball, it hits in fair territory and bounces untouched into foul territory.

I know that the ruling is a foul ball, but in this instance the umpire continued with the out signal and the offensive coach asked very politely, "Wasn't that a foul ball?" The umpire called timeout and went to the base umpire to clear it up. The correct call was ultimately made and we have to give the umpires credit for getting it right, but doesn't it worry you that a varsity high school umpire even needed to ask for help on a play as simple as this. I guess both teams were lucky to not have anything really confusing happen in the game.

[Tim C]

If the umpire would have used the correct mechanic:

"Infield FLY, if FAIR!"

He would have alerted himself to the possibility of the exact play that eventually occurred.

I would like to hope that I would have nailed it immediately.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Mar 27th, 2003 at 05:12 PM]

[Rog]

re: "but doesn't it worry you that a varsity high school umpire even needed to ask for help on a play as simple as this."
Most high school officials are just that - high school officials, and not professional who work major league games.
More than likely most of these officials do it as a means of a "meager" secondary income.
One needs to be aware of the amount of mandatory training time required, length of travel time to and from game sites, game lengths, equipment costs, along with the all too common BS thrown at an officials, then balance all this against the financial returns.
When it is all said and done, you get what you pay for in most areas of life.

[nine01c]

Originally posted by Rog
Most high school officials are just that - high school officials, and not professional who work major league games.
More than likely most of these officials do it as a means of a "meager" secondary income.
One needs to be aware of the amount of mandatory training time required, length of travel time to and from game sites, game lengths, equipment costs, along with the all too common BS thrown at an officials, then balance all this against the financial returns.
When it is all said and done, you get what you pay for in most areas of life.

Well, a mistake is a mistake, and it can be made by any umpire at any level. But I take exception to your accusation that most HS umpires are under-trained, over-worked, under-paid, and take the heat too much to give a damn. If that is your attitude, I would imagine your games do seem overly long (for your partner). Actually, if that is ANYBODY'S attitude, I wonder why he would be officiating at all?

True, there are some umpires just there to get the check. But, the majority of guys I work with in my area really enjoy their (secondary) job, take pride in their gear and appearance, seek continuing education and training, and earn some decent bucks umpiring HS games. Then, they go for more "abuse" in LL, BR, Legion, AAU, Stan Musial, etc. Until the real professional Major League Umpires take over amateur games, I guess the high schools will be stuck with us inferior HS umpires.

[Rog]

re: "I take exception to your"
and I take exception to someone who reads a post and then edits it to their liking.....

Personally though, I have seen too few HS umpire's who were adequately trained (much less over-trained) though I guess one could argue that merely showing up to a half-dozen meetings could serve to qualify someone to be an umpire. Absolutely overworked, i.e. working solo games for 3-4 hours in 90+ degree weather with 80% humidity (and in some cases unscheduled doubleheaders). Then there is that generous monetary reimbursement. Which the umpire pays for their own equipment, manuals, rule books, travel expenses, insurance, and let us not forget to claim those game fees on that tax return so Uncle Sam gets his fair share. Most umpire's I know are lucky to break even after all this.

[5 sport ref]

If he would have used the right mechanic he would have saved himself a little grief.

I know my association demands it veteran (5+ years) to attend an eight hour clinic (memebers under 5 years have 5 three hour clincs) before the season along with a state approved clinic and rules interpretation. At our clinics, we have both classroom, cage and simulated plays we run through. All this plus the wacky plays our members had during the last year. This is done to insure our members are ready for the season to start. We pride ourselves on our training. You just can't walk on the field especially at the varsity level and expect to make the right call with the right mechanic if it isn't practiced a little before the season starts.

I work mostly for enjoyment because you can't make a decent living at this. I just want to give back to the game some of what I took from it.

[Whowefoolin]

Out call? Who uses an out call on a "can of corn"? Everyone in the free world knows it is an out, you don't have to pump your fist.

So with your situation, why was the PU so vigorous with the out call. Let's say it was the right call, you would yell out in-field fly and that is it!

It sounds like there was a lack of knowledge which got said ump into a hole. At the high school level...no excuse. You should know.

And pumping an out after the call is not a brain fart.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by Rog

Most umpire's I know are lucky to break even after all this.

I suspect this statement is about as wrong as calling out a batter for an infield fly on a foul ball...........
Either that or you don't know many umpires..........


Freix

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by 5 sport ref


I know my association demands it veteran (5+ years) to attend an eight hour clinic (memebers under 5 years have 5 three hour clincs) before the season along with a state approved clinic and rules interpretation. At our clinics, we have both classroom, cage and simulated plays we run through. All this plus the wacky plays our members had during the last year. This is done to insure our members are ready for the season to start. We pride ourselves on our training. You just can't walk on the field especially at the varsity level and expect to make the right call with the right mechanic if it isn't practiced a little before the season starts.

You know I live around you. I was wondering which association are you a member of? Maybe I have worked with you at some point?

Peace

[Rog]

So, are you saying that you are able to make ends meet from what you make just umpiring high school games???
I think not!!!

And, making attendance manadatory for five training sessions of 3 hour durations, does not an umpire make.....

Perhaps this was what that umpire had under their belt for training, along with little or no experience. I know this is stretching things a bit - since this could never be the case, or could it?????

Originally posted by Bfair

I suspect this statement is about as wrong as calling out a batter for an infield fly on a foul ball...........
Either that or you don't know many umpires..........


Freix

[5 sport ref]

I never said you can make a living at officiating. What I said was "I work mostly for enjoyment because you can't make a decent living at this. I just want to give back to the game some of what I took from it."

I agree that training does not a umpire make. You can never know enough and at every clinic you can pick something up. Nothing like real game experience to learn.

To JRutledge- I am a member of UMPS.
Our webpage is http://www.umps.org/

[Striker991]

Hmmmm....looks like the tide has turned from volunteer umpires to high-school umpires. I bet we could get all of you riled up way more if it was a volunteer high-school umpire! :-0

Sorry...couldn't resist....

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I know that when I tally up my earnings and my expenses for Uncle Sam... I don't make a buck an hour.

Time off work is nice but that is an expenditure that I can't deduct from my earning. However, it does get deducted from my vacation time. So I am essentially trading my vacation with my family for a buck an hour to indulge myself in officiating.

I guess I am a slow learner because I am still officiating.

[Jerry]

Perhaps you should consult a tax attorney or business consultant. As an "Independent Contractor", you can be in business for yourself and ultimately deduct any "losses" from income from other sources . . . thus avoiding paying taxes on that other income. Assuming you make at least $30,000 from other sources, your "officiating business" can actually end up saving you the equivalent of what taxes you owe.

You don't have that "luxury" if you treat umpiring as a hobby.

Jerry

[chris s]

My god! You guys are nuts!Let us screw up( It does happen) Then we post a synopsis on our beloved board. BOOM the hammer comes down. Come on guys..