I no longer do Fed, but I am wondering if they either jettisoned or modified their infamous "accidental force play" rule this year.

Abel hits a ball off the fence. He misses 1B, touches 2B, and slides safely into 3B. However, F5 lazily tags Abel anyway. Is Abel still to be called out immediately, without an appeal, for missing 1B? (Can there be an intervening play, for example?)

And if Fed did keep the rule, have they defined exactly when liability to be put out on the accidental force play ceases?

Still there
 

This play now requires an appeal. F5 must state why he is tagging (live ball appeal). The coach can request time and also make an appeal without tagging the runner (dead ball appeal).

If the appeal has not been made before the next play initiated by the defense (e.g. a pitch, an intentionally walked batter, or a pick-off attempt)then, opportunity to make the appeal is ended and the runner cannot now be called out for missing 1st.

Thanks for the explanation, Tony. If the play now requires an appeal, how do they call this one:

Abel hits a ground ball to short and clearly beats the throw to 1B but misses the base. Is that now an appeal play, or does the ump still call Abel out?

And if the ump does call Abel out, how is the play where Abel triples but misses 1B any different?

The missed bag at first is an appeal play. Hold your call and if the runner gets back to the back before the defense tags the runner or bag, no harm, no foul. We went over that play in our field clinic.
Jeff

Jeff:
 

Great to hear from you. I lost contact a couple of years ago when we discussed many umpire activities.

Where are you working these days?

Tee

"Hold your call and if the runner gets back to the back before the defense tags the runner or bag, no harm, no foul."

Is'nt the runner considered "Safe". Holding the call, tips the defense off that there is something wrong and a possible appeal is in order. That is the responsibilty of the defense to figure that out without our help.

Our instructions were to signal safe. On proper appeal the runner could be declared out. But usually the runner has returned to the bag by then anyway.

This is one of those plays that is discussed about 100,000 times more than it actually happens. Even then, it usually happens like this:

Runner crosses over bag, Umpire calls out. Coach asked if he missed the bag or umpires states that the runner missed the bag and it is readily accepted.

I know its not by the Book, but there is a large contingent of umpires out there that can not accept the fact that it is the responsibilty of the defense, (Now in Fed) to be aware of baserunning infractions, instead of the official. Im glad the various rules are coming closer together on this.

<i> Originally posted by jicecone </i>

<b> "Hold your call and if the runner gets back to the back before the defense tags the runner or bag, no harm, no foul."

Is'nt the runner considered "Safe". Holding the call, tips the defense off that there is something wrong and a possible appeal is in order. That is the responsibilty of the defense to figure that out without our help.

Our instructions were to signal safe. On proper appeal the runner could be declared out. But usually the runner has returned to the bag by then anyway. </b>

This is FED. When B1 beats the throw to first base but does NOT touch the bag and F3 steps on the bag with the ball, B1 is OUT.

You gave the OBR mechanic.

Here's a FED case play which illustrates this very issue.

FED Case Play 8.2.3

B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrives safely but MISSES first base. F3 catches the ball and CASUALLY (ACCIDENTALLY), steps on first base.

<b> RULING </b>

B1 is OUT, because a FORCE Play is being made on a runner and is the result of continuous action. F3 is NOT required to appeal the missed base and needs only to complete the Force Out.

In FED, on a Force Play situation an appeal is not needed. A Fielder need only "accidentally" step on the bag and in FED we record the out.

Another example; R1 2 outs. B1 singles to right and R1 on route to third base MISSES second. F4/F6 in bringing the ball back into the infield "accidentally" steps on second.

In FED we would register the out.

This is not the case in OBR.

Pete Booth

[Edited by PeteBooth on Mar 11th, 2003 at 10:41 PM]

Pete,
Thanks for the case book info. Given that, what mechanic do you use? As I said we were instructed to hold the call. Not being argumentative, just looking to get it right.

Tee,
You may be thinking of another person. Although we are "neighbors", I live and work games in Olympia (and you are in Portland I believe). This will be my 3rd year of umpiring and starting posting on the discussion boards last year.
Jeff

<i> Originally posted by Jeffhead </i>

<b> Pete,
Thanks for the case book info. Given that, what mechanic do you use? As I said we were instructed to hold the call. Not being argumentative, just looking to get it right. </b>

<b> OBR Mechanic </b>

In OBR when B1 beats the throw but does not Touch the bag, the BU gives the Safe Signal unless the defense appeals. Also, keep in mind "relaxed" vs. "unrelaxed" action. By that I mean suppose B1 misses first base, but immediately trys to correct his /her mistake. At that point in time (action unrelaxed), we do not recognize an appeal, the runner would have to be tagged.

If the action is relaxed meaning the runner is 10 ft. or so passed the bag, then all that is needed is for F3 to say "Blue he /she missed first" step on bag with the ball and we register the out or Give an unmistakable act that he /she is appealing.

<b> FED Mechanic </b>

As mentioned in FED, if F3 touches the bag with the ball we give the OUT signal. If F3 does not "accidentally" step on the bag with the ball, then do as the OBR umpire.

IMO "holding" a call tips the defense. Most of the time F3 will have the ball on the bag, so it's a non issue in FED.

Pete Booth

[Edited by PeteBooth on Mar 11th, 2003 at 10:43 PM]

Re: Still there
 

From the Fed 2002 website ruings:
<ul>SITUATION 19: With a runner on first base, the batter doubles to left center. As the runner from first advances, he misses second base. With the ball still live, the third baseman tags the runner standing on third base, not knowing the runner missed second base.

RULING: Since the missed base was a forced base for the runner, the runner will be declared out on a force play even though the defense did not knowingly appeal the missed base. (2-24-1, 2-29-3, 8-2-7)</ul>
Please note the final rule references provided by the Fed.
Have any of these rules changed this year?

This play remains in the Fed 2003 Casebook:
<ul>8.2.3 SITUATION: B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrives safely but misses first base. F3 catches the ball and casually steps on first base, though he believes the runner has beaten the throw.

Ruling: B1 is out. Because the force play is being made on the runner and is a result of continuing action, F3 is not required to appeal the missed base and needs only to complete the force out.</ul>
<hr width=50%>
So, we know <u>as of last year</u> that accidental tagging of a forced runner who missed a forced base yet is standing on another base is sufficient to gain the out. We also know by caseplay that accidental tagging of his missed forced base remains valid this year to obtain an out.

<b>Tony, can you cite any proof to support your statement that tagging of the forced runner who missed a base is no longer valid?</b> While I heard that the topic may have been under review by the Fed, I can't recall seeing anything that eliminates their interpretation from last year.


Freix

Let me see. Batter hits the ball and runs to 1st. B/R misses 1st base but does so before the throw arrives.
Under OBR you are supposed to call safe when the B/R is clearly not safe or not out. Where is the call in this? The defense has not made the out yet and the B/R has not yet touched the base. You have no call at this point because the play is not yet complete.

Wool,
 

While what you say is correct for a play at the Plate it is not true for a play at first.

The accepted mechanic is as listed above by others.

Tee

So we have no evidence that Fed has eliminated or modified their "accidental force play" rule.

Tim: Wouldn't it be correct for a <i>force</i> play at the plate? Bases loaded, ground ball to F4, who throws to F2 touching the plate after R3 beat the throw but missed the plate. If the out at 1B still applies, which apparently it does, I would think the play at home would be a parallel situation. I don't remember any exceptions for home.

Red (FED) Light Flashing
 

DTTB:
(and all).

The statement above is completely FALSE.

In fact, the "accidental appeal" is still alive and must be called.

The runner in the example is out, by accident.

My fav is R1 rounds and misses second. He continues on to HOME on the triple by BR. Throw finally comes in to INFIELDER who takes throw while coincidently STANDING on 2nd base.

R1 is now immediately called OUT.

My favorite is the inside-the-park home run, after which the catcher hands the ball to the BR for a souvenir and the umpire calls him out for missing 1B.

Or Abel triples but misses 1B. They intentionally walk Baker and Charles. Then they try to pick Charles off 1B and F3 has his foot on the bag, so they call Abel out on the accidental force play. (We never did determine whether that was possible or not, but who knows?)

In FED the defense has made a play when they intentionally wak Baker, thus no appeal allowed.

Don't bet on it. We got a ruling from Fed last year to the effect that only a <i>pitch</i> nullifies an appeal. Not a pickoff, not an intentional walk.

However, what everyone calls the "accidental appeal" is really the "accidental force play." The question is whether a break in continuing action (whatever that is exactly) nullifies the accidental force play.

<i> Originally posted by greymule </i>

<b> Don't bet on it. We got a ruling from Fed last year to the effect that only a <i>pitch</i> nullifies an appeal. Not a pickoff, not an intentional walk. </b>

That was the ruling LAST year. This year the ruling has changed to include an intentional base on balls.

The Live Ball appeal is virtually the same as OBR except in 2 cases.

1. The Offense initiates the play. ie; R1. B1 singles and R1 missess second on route to third base. B1 seeing his teammate miss second starts walking towards second in hopes that F1 will play on him. F1 proceeds to make a play. Can the defense appeal.

In FED, the answer is YES becasue the offense initiated a play.

2. F1 attempts an appeal of R1 now on third base but throws the ball into DBT. Can the defense still appeal.

In FED the answer is yes. In OBR NO.

Grey you have been away from FED too long. There are a number of changes this year that were not there last year. If you are still interested in the FED rule changes visit the NFHS website where they have a listing of all the rule changes.

Pete Booth

NO WAY!
 

Can't call Abel out on appeal in Greymule's play above, as the Intentional walks are "plays", thus the defense loses their right to appeal.

Ok Im confused.

I will quote our Interpreter's statement about Case 8.2.3, Fed Pg 56. "Strike It from your Book, It was applicable last year , but not this Year."

Can someone help out here?

I understood there were some cases that were wrong in the CaseBook this year because of the timing of it's printing and rulings on this subject. Is this one of them ?

Once again, I don't believe that it that big a deal because of the infrequency that it happens however, I also want to get it right.

If your interpreter is correct, then Fed has made a significant change. The "accidental force play" is indeed gone, the answer to my original post. All those situations, derived from 8.2.3, in which a runner who has missed a base to which he was forced and then a fielder casually tags him or touches the base can now be forgotten.

We can also forget about trying to determine whether continuing action has stopped and the accidental force is still in effect.

It's true, as you say, that such plays are not everyday occurrences. But I've seen the play described in 8.2.3 many times, including in MLB.

THe ruling still applies in FED. Your state might (and apparenlty does) have a different interpretation.

"FED Case Play 8.2.3

B1 hits a slow roller to F5 and arrives safely but MISSES first base. F3 catches the ball and CASUALLY (ACCIDENTALLY), steps on first base."

I will contine to look into this, but in the meantime I also will signal the runner safe. Why? The case states that the runner "arrives safely but MISSES first base.", which lends credelence to declaring the runner safe.

Looking at the FED site:

8-2 Penalty (Art. 1-5) For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early.


So according to that, the intentional walk cancels the appeal. If the offense initiates the play, then the appeal still stands. During a live ball appeal, the defense just needs to tag the base or the runner, they do not need to say why they are doing this.

No. An appeal is still an appeal. The defense must say why they are tagging the runner or the base. But if B1 hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, touches 2B, slides safely into 3B, and then is nonchalantly tagged by F5, B1 is called out, not on an appeal play, but on the "accidental force play."

Greymule
 

How much Fed do you work?

Tee

I stopped doing Fed after last year. I was just wondering whether they addressed the "accidental force play" situation that has caused so much controversy. Unfortunately, the posts have been confusing. Some people say Fed made some changes, one says they eliminated the rule, others are confusing force plays with appeal plays.

8.2.3 is not an appeal play. It is a "force play" (even though by strict definition it is not).

If gsf23 had quoted the entire Penalty with Note then it might have been more clear.

PENALTY (Art. 1-5): For failure to touch a base (advancing and returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch (legal or illegal), granting an intentional base on balls, or before the next play or attempted play. If the offensive team initiates a play before the next pitch, the defensive team does not lose the right to appeal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch; (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory; (3) before an intentional base on balls is granted; or (4) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. <b>NOTE: When a play by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary,</b> e.g. runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress.

gobama84: I understand that when a runner is doubled off base on a line drive and what's happening is obvious to everybody in the park, the defense does not have to vocalize an appeal. That's not the point. I'm asking about the accidental force play, which has <i>nothing</i> to do with appeals or appeal procedure.