Here's one to chew on

[Rich]

OBR. 2 outs. Bases empty.

B1 hits a ball out of the park. As he approaches the plate, he notices his teammates ready to celebrate the home run. He misses the plate by at least a foot on the front side and almost two feet on the backside. As the players celebrate, a teammate tells B1 that he missed the plate and puts a hand in his back and pushes him in the direction of the plate.

[johnnyg08]

Count the run. Allow the touch. YMMV

[lawump]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

OBR. 2 outs. Bases empty.

B1 hits a ball out of the park. As he approaches the plate, he notices his teammates ready to celebrate the home run. He misses the plate by at least a foot on the front side and almost two feet on the backside. As the players celebrate, a teammate tells B1 that he missed the plate and puts a hand in his back and pushes him in the direction of the plate.

I don't have a single rule book in front of me here at work...so here goes nothing. Home run is a dead ball four-base award. Ball is dead, so I have nothing on the "assistance" given by the teammate.

Now, all, please tell me if I am wrong.

[bob jenkins]

Based on some recent interp (that, like lawump, I don't have handy), assistance by a teammate is the same as assistance by a coach. Out.

[Rich]

This is the MLB play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Curious: Morgan out at home for contact - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I don't have a citation from the MLBUM or OBR or anything like that.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Based on some recent interp (that, like lawump, I don't have handy), assistance by a teammate is the same as assistance by a coach. Out.

Unless it is within the base path, then it's nothing? I seem to remember discussion around this where runners can assist runners as long as the preceding doesn't pass?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Unless it is within the base path, then it's nothing? I seem to remember discussion around this where runners can assist runners as long as the preceding doesn't pass?

The teammates weren't runners. The play (in my OP) is a solo home run with teammates gathering around the plate to celebrate.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Unless it is within the base path, then it's nothing? I seem to remember discussion around this where runners can assist runners as long as the preceding doesn't pass?

Of course, but that has nothing to do with the play being discussed.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is the MLB play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Curious: Morgan out at home for contact - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I don't have a citation from the MLBUM or OBR or anything like that.

Few differences between this and your situation though, Rich: (1) It's a live ball; (2) It's a previous runner, not someone from the dugout, assisting

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Of course, but that has nothing to do with the play being discussed.

I think it does only because there is a difference of what the player becomes. As an umpire, certainly I know the difference, but to explain it to a coach who's going to come unglued...

So, that being said...we have what somebody thinks is an official interp...do we have anything in writing to support an out or denying an appeal?

Is this an appeal that must be made by the defense, we allow the former runner to go back and touch home plate, but call him out upon successful appeal or call him out right away because of interference?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is the MLB play:

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | Must C Curious: Morgan out at home for contact - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

I don't have a citation from the MLBUM or OBR or anything like that.

On this play (not your original play):

1. I seem to recall the interp that Bob mentioned: assistance by a teammate is equivalent to assistance by a coach (though the rule prohibits only base coach contact). Runner out, ball is live till the end of playing action.

2. Whaddya know, Angel Hernandez.

3. The Nats didn't need that run anyway.

4. Morgan missed the plate in order to shove F2: karma's a bïtch.

5. I LOVE the commentator's remark as the replay begins: "Now, let's see where the catcher left his mask." Hahahaha! Even McCarver couldn't have come up with that one.

6. And then another gem: "You cannot touch a live baserunner." Dead ones, sure, but not the live ones!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Is this an appeal that must be made by the defense, we allow the former runner to go back and touch home plate, but call him out upon successful appeal or call him out right away because of interference?

Yes, those are the questions / options.

[lawump]

Let's say that the original post involved a COACH (as opposed to a teammate). According to the 2011 BRD, in OBR there is no provision in the MLBUM, PBUC Manual, J/R or JEA addressing what penalty, if any, is to be applied if a coach assists the runner during a dead ball.

The BRD says that according to an e-mail Rick Roder (of the J/R manual) sent Carl Childress in 1993, Mr. Roder would recommend calling the runner out.

However, Mr. Roder's opinion is certainly not conclusive of this issue.

In FED, the runner is not out if the coach assists during a dead ball.

Now, if the posts subsequent to the original post in this thread are correct, and that assistance by a teammate is to be treated in the same manner as assistance by a coach...then we do not know the proper ruling in OBR. There is no official ruling on coach's assistance during a dead ball in OBR, MLBUM, PBUC Manual, JEA or J/R.

I would argue that the FED rule should apply in OBR. BRD says (to paraphrase) if you agree with Roder's e-mail then call the assisted runner out. Thus, I don't believe this will be definitively resolved until it happens on the MLB or MiLB level and it makes its way into the MLBUM or PBUC Manual.

[Publius]

...doesn't mean you should.

There's no rules support for an out in either case--live or dead.

[Rich]

Some things simply don't have rules support.

(1) The runner missed the plate by a considerable amount. I saw it, the teammate saw it, the other team saw it.
(2) The teammate pushed the runner back to the plate.
(3) The runner wouldn't have missed the plate had the teammates stayed in the dugout.

Spirit and intent discussions fascinate me. In one respect, the batter beat the pitcher -- he hit it out. On the other hand, the runner is expected to round the bases and touch them properly.

To me, without specific direction from authoritative sources, this is one of those rare 9.01(c) situations.

In case anyone cares, I called the B-R out. I'm sure some will disagree and some have already privately agreed with me. The coach, of course, had the right to protest and since this was a Little League Junior State Championship, he could've run the protest right to Indianapolis and then to Williamsport. He didn't. The coaches are well reminded of the protest procedure during the coaches' meeting. I know, cause I was there to run the rules part of the meeting.