No interference called in the STL game.

[Larry1953]

If the errant throw had hit the PU instead of the ODB, would the ruling had been the same? I'd imagine so by Ozzy's criteria unless there is a specific rule that covers umpires. The throw could also have hit a catcher's mask, bat, or a detached helmet after the runner slid and it would still be a live ball, correct?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

If the errant throw had hit the PU instead of the ODB, would the ruling had been the same? I'd imagine so by Ozzy's criteria unless there is a specific rule that covers umpires. The throw could also have hit a catcher's mask, bat, or a detached helmet after the runner slid and it would still be a live ball, correct?

I thought you were such a rules person? A throw hitting an umpire anywhere on the field is a live ball.

[jeschmit]

I was at this game about 3 rows behind the first base dugout. They got the call right, and I had to explain this to about 30 people sitting near me after the play happened.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I thought you were such a rules person? A throw hitting an umpire anywhere on the field is a live ball.

Well, I thought I knew the rules until I found this site and realized how much I don't know. OK, I think I gotcha here.....if a pitched (and I guess a thrown ball from a fielder) hits the PU such that it gets stuck in his paraphernalia, it's a dead ball, correct? I guess in the days of the balloon it might have happened every now and then, but I've never seen or heard of that happening - although I'm sure you guys have war stories where a ball somehow hopped into a ball bag or something.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I was at this game about 3 rows behind the first base dugout. They got the call right, and I had to explain this to about 30 people sitting near me after the play happened.

As an Astros fan, I have always admired the St Louis fans for their knowledge and respect of the game and the opponent. I'd imagine several of those fans were quoting rules by number. Best fans in the game, bar none.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

OK, I think I gotcha here.....if a pitched (and I guess a thrown ball from a fielder) hits the PU such that it gets stuck in his paraphernalia, it's a dead ball, correct?

"Hitting" and "lodging" are two completely different things. Any thrown ball that hits an umpire is still alive. Any ball that becomes lodged on an umpire is a dead ball.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by yawetag

"Hitting" and "lodging" are two completely different things. Any thrown ball that hits an umpire is still alive. Any ball that becomes lodged on an umpire is a dead ball.

True that. It was my weak attempt at Boolean humor.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Well, I thought I knew the rules until I found this site and realized how much I don't know. OK, I think I gotcha here.....if a pitched (and I guess a thrown ball from a fielder) hits the PU such that it gets stuck in his paraphernalia, it's a dead ball, correct? I guess in the days of the balloon it might have happened every now and then, but I've never seen or heard of that happening - although I'm sure you guys have war stories where a ball somehow hopped into a ball bag or something.

You said "an errant throw . . . "

A throw is not a pitch - which you can find in rule 2.00.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

As an Astros fan, I have always admired the St Louis fans for their knowledge and respect of the game and the opponent. I'd imagine several of those fans were quoting rules by number. Best fans in the game, bar none.

Without contradicting your point about Cardinal fans, Red Sox and Tigers fans are every bit as good.

'68 and '06--there's nothing like a Cardinals-Tigers World Series.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Publius

Without contradicting your point about Cardinal fans, Red Sox and Tigers fans are every bit as good.

'68 and '06--there's nothing like a Cardinals-Tigers World Series.

No doubt, but I've mainly followed the NL. I'll probably become a Cards fan if the Astros get shifted to the AL. I had the good fortune to see an NLCS game in StL in 1996 vs the Padres. Before the game I stopped by Shannon's. Next to me was a dad with two twenty-something daughters. I overheard them discussing the relative strength of middle relief of teams in the NL Central. I was quite impressed.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

I overheard them discussing the relative strength of middle relief of teams in the NL Central.

Too bad the Cardinals can't find a decent closer.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Well, I thought I knew the rules until I found this site and realized how much I don't know. OK, I think I gotcha here.....if a pitched (and I guess a thrown ball from a fielder) hits the PU such that it gets stuck in his paraphernalia, it's a dead ball, correct? I guess in the days of the balloon it might have happened every now and then, but I've never seen or heard of that happening - although I'm sure you guys have war stories where a ball somehow hopped into a ball bag or something.

Let's make this easy.

Umpire Interference:

Plate Umpire: If the plate umpire interferes with the catcher's throw to retire a runner, that is interference.

Base Umpire: If a batted ball contacts the umpire in the field before the ball passes a fielder (other than the pitcher), that is interference.

Those are the only 2 ways an umpire can interfere. Thrown balls striking the umpire are nothing, pitched balls striking the umpire are nothing, deflected balls striking the umpire are nothing.

It is all in OBR 2.0(c):
Umpire’s interference occurs (1) when a plate umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base or retire a runner on a pick-off play, or (2) when a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder.

[Larry1953]

Thanks Ozzy. I only recall U2 being in a position for batted ball interference. I just haven't paid attention to positioning with the 4 man crew.in MLB. Are there situations where U2 would be in front of F4/F6 - what do y'all call it - B or C position? I guess the B/R would be credited with a hit like RI - tough way to lose a no-hitter. Does this happen more with 2 and 3 man crews?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

I just haven't paid attention to positioning with the 4 man crew.in MLB. Are there situations where U2 would be in front of F4/F6 - what do y'all call it - B or C position?

Yes. Without any 4-man experience, I know they put themselves in a "deep" B or C when there's R1 only (and probably anytime there's a runner on 2nd or 2nd can be stolen).

Originally Posted by Larry1953

I guess the B/R would be credited with a hit like RI

Yep. 10.05(a)(5): The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when a fair ball that has not been touched by a fielder touches a runner or an umpire.

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Does this happen more with 2 and 3 man crews?

Couldn't tell you for sure. In what I can tell, U2 is inside almost as much as a U1 or U3 would be (except R3 only), so I can't imagine it happens any less frequently.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

As an Astros fan, I have always admired the St Louis fans for their knowledge and respect of the game and the opponent. I'd imagine several of those fans were quoting rules by number. Best fans in the game, bar none.

I highly doubt that anyone was quoting rules in the stands.

Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball.....just ask them, they'll tell you about it.