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-   -   Is this obstruction? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/72816-obstruction.html)

Larry1953 Tue Jun 21, 2011 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 767527)
If R3 would have been called for MC if the ball was knocked loose, then he should have been called for MC in your play.

As I envisioned your play, it was likely OBS. It could have been a trainwreck. It *was* HTBT.

On the "act of fielding" issue. In OBR, a fielder can block the base if he's in "the act of fielding" a throw. In LL (I think -- I don't work LL), it used to be that way. I think they've removed that so he now has to have the ball.

That said, that rule generally applies only when a fielder is setting up to block the base. If a throw takes him into the path, then it's (usually) nothing.

About the MC issue....As I recall, the "runner must slide myth" and MC rulings were coming into vogue when that play happened 15 years ago. My point was that the high school age ump was very likely more in tune to making that hot topic call than contemplate the nuances of obstruction. Just about anytime a runner knocked a fielder over when a tag was being applied and especially if the ball came loose, the runner was usually called out and often ejected. In the interest of safety, I never argued such a call. It was sometimes even made in rundown situations with the ball coming over the runners shoulder and the fielder making split second adjustments that caused him to get plowed. But it was better to teach the kids to try to avoid hurting each other.

mbyron Tue Jun 21, 2011 07:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1953 (Post 767502)
So, what is your call: F5 jumps to catch a throw from F2 in a rundown situation. It deflects off his glove into LF and he lands on his feet 10 feet down the line from the bag where he was originally stationed for the rundown. R3 is running back to the bag - plants right foot, plants left foot then collides with F5 who obviously does not have possession of the ball since it is well on its deflected course way to LF?

Could be OBS. From your description, it sounds like OBS, but I would have to see the play to judge it, as it depends on whether the fielder hindered the runner and how they were lined up.

I had a play at 1B this year where R1 got picked off, took off for 2B, and got in a rundown. As F3 threw the ball to F6, he stepped out of the baseline toward right field. R1 turned around and ran toward RF in order to deliberately collide with F3 and beg for an OBS call, when he could have run toward 1B unobstructed. That was not OBS.

Larry1953 Tue Jun 21, 2011 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 767607)
Could be OBS. From your description, it sounds like OBS, but I would have to see the play to judge it, as it depends on whether the fielder hindered the runner and how they were lined up.

I had a play at 1B this year where R1 got picked off, took off for 2B, and got in a rundown. As F3 threw the ball to F6, he stepped out of the baseline toward right field. R1 turned around and ran toward RF in order to deliberately collide with F3 and beg for an OBS call, when he could have run toward 1B unobstructed. That was not OBS.

MB, so how did you rule on R1? I guess he could have been called out if he deviated more than 3 feet from his established baseline.

As a coach, I never considered protesting a game and I don't recall any specific circumstance where I could have because the heartburn wasn't worth it. Several times, I would call out, "Hey Blue, wrong batter" to prevent the Able-Baker-Charlie stuff that would have eaten up much of our timed game ay to figure out. That said, could a call of no-OBS be protested? Let's say a conversation went like this: "Blue, that's obstruction. My runner gets home." "Nope, Coach, I've got the fielder in the act of fielding, trying to make the catch." "You do agree that the ball was well past him when they collided don't you." "Sure, but the fielder didn't have time to try to get out of the way". "The rules say he can no longer be considered in the act of fielding once the ball is past him". "Nope, it's a judgment call, Coach".

Clearly, to me at least, that is a misapplication of the rules. Is that the kind of explanation from an ump that would be grounds to file a protest? I just don't know how the mechanic works.

Adam Tue Jun 21, 2011 09:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1953 (Post 767628)
Clearly, to me at least, that is a misapplication of the rules. Is that the kind of explanation from an ump that would be grounds to file a protest? I just don't know how the mechanic works.

Not being a baseball guy, I'm only guessing here, but I'm pretty sure this would be a judgment call.

note: basketball doesn't have protests unless you are in Missouri.

bob jenkins Wed Jun 22, 2011 07:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1953 (Post 767628)
MB, so how did you rule on R1? I guess he could have been called out if he deviated more than 3 feet from his established baseline.

That's not the (entire) rule.

mbyron Wed Jun 22, 2011 08:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1953 (Post 767628)
MB, so how did you rule on R1? I guess he could have been called out if he deviated more than 3 feet from his established baseline.

After bumping into F3, R1 tried to get back to the base, which F1 was covering, with the ball. R1 was out.

mbyron Wed Jun 22, 2011 08:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1953 (Post 767628)
"Blue, that's obstruction. My runner gets home."

"Nope, Coach, I've got the fielder in the act of fielding, trying to make the catch."

"You do agree that the ball was well past him when they collided don't you."

"Sure, but the fielder didn't have time to try to get out of the way".

"The rules say he can no longer be considered in the act of fielding once the ball is past him".

"Nope, it's a judgment call, Coach".

Clearly, to me at least, that is a misapplication of the rules. Is that the kind of explanation from an ump that would be grounds to file a protest? I just don't know how the mechanic works.

Although ruling on obstruction is a judgment call, the umpire in your scenario has exhibited that he has misapplied the rule. His words, not his call, would open the call to protest, I think. (My state and no league I work allow protests, so I've never been involved in one, so I'm no expert here.)


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