Can I assist my fellow runner?
 

Last night M's, Padres.

1 out R1, R3.
FB to the LC gap.

F7 makes a long run gets to the ball appears to snag it, but then clearly drops it, no catch is the correct call.

R1 advances towards 2B on the fly, goes maybe 7/8's the way, see's the ball is reached, turns and hustles back to 1B thinking it was caught.

BR rounding first runs into and pushes R1 back towards 2b, he does not pass R1.

R1 heads for 2B, the throw from F8 forces R1 at 2nd, BU signals an out on the force.

Umpires huddle up (unprovoked by either team, that I could tell).

Announcer watching the replay say's; "oh, he (BR) touched him (R1).

PU calls OHC out and splains something to him, points at BR now R1 and rings him up, then pulls the forced R1 out of the dugout and places him on 2nd.

I do not know if they actually called the BR out because he assisted R1 or if they actually thought he passed R1?

I was not watching, but there is no rule prohibiting assisting a fellow runner unless passed. Coaches can't help, but runners can. The BR must have passed R1.

Anyone with a link?

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15023115

He didn't pass him. Unless there's something I'm missing, it was a horrible call.

According to MLB's play-by-play: Ryan Ludwick singles on a fly ball to center fielder Franklin Gutierrez. Chris Denorfia scores. Jason Bartlett to 2nd. Ryan Ludwick out at 1st, first baseman Justin Smoak.

According to Yahoo!: The Padres avoided their ninth shutout when Peguero couldn’t hang on to Ludwick’s fly ball as he tried to make a diving catch. Ludwick’s single scored Chris Denorfia(notes), but Ludwick was called out for passing Jason Bartlett(notes), who had turned back to first base, thinking Peguero had made the catch.

And we wonder how BB myth's get started.

Thousand of fans in attendance and watching on the tube, now know that you can't "touch" a fellow runner.

There was absolutely no doubt, BR did not pass R1.

They'll just make an interp next year that says the umpires were right. :D

Makes sense. If a retired or scored runner can not aid a fellow runner, as interpreted last year, then obviously a fellow runner can not aid another. The question is who to call out?
Besides, when MLB tells McClelland he was wrong he's just going to disagree with them anyway.

The results indicate the BR passed, so R1 was placed at 2b, since he was not tagged on advance.

BR did not pass, it did not appear.

Wow. And there was an umpire looking directly at the two players involved. At least I'm not the only one who makes a bad call now and then...:rolleyes:

JJ

I've always thought I was qualified to be a MLB ump. ;)

Oh my. Now we have to un-teach this to thousands of coaches out there. Way to go, big guys.

If you look closely, the PU makes a pushing motion when explaining the call. Could this be the call - helping the runner by pushing ? Therefore BR out and R1 at 2.

Got a cite for that rule in any book?

No. Just guessing that that was the call.

Probably a trivial technical detail, but Ludwick's right foot seems to step 'past' Bartlett as he turned around. Perhaps that is the 'pass'.

It begs the question - when is a runner considered to have passed?

I've been taught the trailing runner must have his complete body past the leading runner.

+1

Passed is completely past, not adjacent or nearby.

Yes, I see that motion. However - that's not illegal. I hate umpires that invent rules. Truly sucks that they are doing it at the MLB level now.

What kills me is FOUR MLB umpires got together to make this call. You'd think one would know this non-rule. Nope.

Look, these fellows aren't the brightest guys in the world, granted. But they should at least know their trade. It ain't rocket surgery out there, boys.

Oh, and Tim McClelland need to retire. He's just awful, and blew a call the a couple nights later at second. And he can take Joe the fire hydrant West with him.

I have to think that U1, whoever it was, came in and announced that BR had passed R1. Nobody else saw it, so they took that to be correct.

So conferencing wouldn't have changed that: they simply discussed why R1 should be brought back out and put on 2B (he wasn't forced, since BR was out for passing, and he wasn't tagged).

Watch Tim explain it to Buddy Black. They called the push, not a pass.

Plus, if it were a pass, R3 wouldn't have been returned to third. They called interference, which killed the play. No wait, coaches INT, would have been a live ball. Oh wait, if they're call in INT, why is R1 safe as second? Wait, what?

FUBAR, boys.

In which case, why wouldn't the assisted runner be the one that is out? That's who would be out if it was the base coach pushing him.

Near as I can tell, not only did they make up a rule, they misapplied it.

1. I did watch Tim. I saw him say "passing the runner."

2. There was no R3 on this play, which began with 1 out, R1 & R2.

3. R2 scored, and his run counted.

4. The call was passing the runner, BR is out. That removes the force on R1, who was safe at 2B because the defense didn't tag him.

5. Play resumed with 2 out and R2 rather than 2 out and R1, which is why Black didn't complain: he got a runner into scoring position out of it.

Once you grant the passing the runner call, they handled it absolutely correctly.

R2, you're correct.

No way did the BR pass R1. It wasn't even close.

As I recall, as that replay doesn't quite spin out that far, R2 is put back at third. You see Tim heading toward the dugout again as the replay ends.

I agree: IMO U1 misapplied the rule concerning passing another runner.

All I'm saying is if you grant that what BR did counts as "passing," the rest of what they did was correct.

I think Tim was heading toward the Mariner's dugout to explain the call to Wedge.

The Padres scored just one run in the game, in the ninth, and Ludwick (called out for passing the runner) had the RBI. So R2 (Denorfia) scored on this play.

Haha, I love this, My Uncle Allen used to say this one. Thanks for the smile!