Pitcher turning the shoulders
 

Had coach yelling for a balk tonight when pitcher was turning to look at first before coming set. I explained that this rule was changed several years back and is no longer a balk.

Does anybody remember what year this changed?

What rule code?

FED, and it was about 3 years ago. They changed the rule to allow F1 to turn his shoulders to check a runner until F1 brought his hands together (not when he came set, which is what the rule should have been changed to).

Yelling? Do you allow that?

You can't stop it before it happens, and it appears he addressed it. Sheesh.

1+ :D

-Josh

You "address" yelling with explanations of the balk rule? That's not my idea of addressing yelling. :rolleyes:

IMO too many umpires fail to address coaches who yell, and that makes my job more difficult. I'm sorry you don't regard this issue as legitimate.

Power Hungry?

~Sigh~
 

I don't allow "yelling" about balls/strikes or balks. I shut it down at once.

If that is considered "power hungry" by a rat, so be it.

T

The issue is legitimate, I just don't see it as part of the OP. And, a timely, accurate, calm explanation of the rule (in five words or fewer) can stop the yelling.

New here?

+1.

Shutting down the yelling can take many forms. It doesn't necessarily require a nuclear warhead.

This was a first base coach. Fed varsity game. Yelling may be a strong word for it. He was "exclaiming" "that's a balk" each time the pitcher turned to look at his runner.
After the second pitch that he did it, it clicked to me what he was talking about so I took a few steps toward him and said "coach, that's not a rule anymore. it changed about five years ago." HC asked me about it between innings and I gave hime the same explination.

In my mind this was a simple way to control the situation and I didn't hear another word the rest of the game.

New ID.

This one claims to have played at USC, though a search of rosters back through the 50's doesn't show his name.

Maybe Dykhoff is more a descriptive noun than proper noun.

Resumes are cheap on the internet. I "played baseball" at the University of Texas... if you count showing up for open tryouts and getting struck out by both Roger Clemens and Calvin Schiraldi while they were really just warming up "playing baseball".

How do you keep a coach from yelling in the first place? There is no rule against it. Being loud is not illegal unless you are working a game with a beeping ball.

'sheesh' was right.

Hmm, you seem to be taking a different tact. The obvious context was a coach yelling at an umpire. You're saying you allow that because it's not against the rules?

Are you guys seriously saying you'd eject, or in some other way try to put a coach "in his place" for the mere act of hollering, "That's a balk!" Really? Sounds to me like the OP handled this the way most umpires would handle it, self included. "Blue, you suck - that's a balk!!!!" Completely different situation. But just "That's a balk!!" said twice is not grounds to get your panties in a wad.

I'd probably address it in some way, but nothing that involves raising my blood pressure. We can't have a coach yelling out "that's a balk" all game, but unless it's really persistent or inflammatory, I can deal with it.

We had a LHP who had a *great* move yesterday and I had to talk to a first base coach between innings who didn't think so much of it (he and the runner were the only ones picked off twice, though). I could've told him to send the head coach out, that I don't talk to assistants, but what good does that do? Short chat, we agreed to disagree, but at least he knew why I didn't call a balk. And life went on.

Hmmm,
 

Assistant coaches have a VERY short rope with me.

An assistant coach coaching first base would "say": "That's a balk!" possibly twice. Then it would be dealt with.

I guess I would start with the head coach and let him no if I dump his assistant he automatically gets restricted.

I am amazed that some of you would allow ANY assistant to continue to do something such as shouting (commenting): "That's a balk."

BTW, knowing the rule of when F1 can move his shoulders could be conveyed to the head coach at the end of the inning as he passes by: "Hey Skip, better help your first vase coach understand the rules we are playing under . . . "

T

I'm not saying I'd let him continue or wouldn't address it at all. Several here sounded like they were implying that the ASSt coach should have been tossed immediately. OP did "deal with" the coach and didn't let him keep on yelling - but was getting thrown under the bus for it. Didn't think he did anything differently than most of us REALLY would.

(Yes, I know that most of the umpires on here would eject someone a lot quicker in print than on the field).

I'm just axin'.

Your first and last points seem reasonably similar to what happened, according to the clarification. So, the middle points weren't needed.

I had to work two games that went VERY late last night. Just awoke and saw your post. Mike (mcrowder) answered it perfectly. It is not against the rules for a coach to be loud, let alone state his opinion of the play. If he argues it we have a different story. In the OP, the coach did nothing wrong.

Well said, and usually the approach that I've taken on these types of plays.

Thanks
David

Depends. Many conferences list "inciting/inciteful behavior" as grounds for an ejection. Example: a coach "yelling" from the dugout or a coach's box across the diamond his "opinion" of a call will not last long in most D-1 games in this area. He'll get one for free and an offer to come out and talk. If he declines and continues to be "loud" in his expression. He will leave.

True, but most D1 coaches aren't going to be "yelling" across the field. They know what they can get away with, and usually go to the "edge".

D2 - D3 and HS coaches, they don't know and usually are the culprits. They generally go "over the edge" has been my experience.

Thanks
David

Edited to add: Just noticed that this was an assistant coach. He might not get the free one. Depends on what he's yelling. If he's keeping count of what I "owe him" he's certainly done.

A number of us have already stated that there is nothing illegal about a coach stating his opinion on a play. He can do it loudly, as well. I have never seen a conference restrict that right. No, D-1 schools do not limit a coach's vocal volume. There are a number of rules about what he can say, when he can say it but not how loud he can do it.

Watch LaRussa work a plate umpire from the dugout some day. Paul Mainieri, Mike Gillespie, Chad Kreuter, Tim Esmay, Jim Morris, Mark Marquess, to name a few, are elite but volatile coaches who yell aplenty. The guys working those games know that yelling an opinion is not arguing. Commitment to that opinion may warrant further action and the rules allow us to handle them appropriately. No need to be an OOO.

Nothing OOO about taking care of business with a skip that is "inciting" the crowd or his team. Haven't seen a conference yet call that a bad ejection.

How does volume come into play? Neither the crowd or umpire would have heard it otherwise.

Dave Yeast used to have a name for umpires who left it up to others to take of business. I won't repeat it here.

If you believe a coach is 'inciting' the crowd by yelling that a balk occured then you should retire or at least confine yourself to games where a tee and soft baseball are involved. You won't have to worry about coaches yelling "That was a balk." then.

If anyone was making that point, I'd agree. They should burn their gear, donate their unis to Goodwill and be forced to listen to Michelle Bachmann speeches on a loop for days at a time.

But, thankfully, I didn't notice anyone in this thread stating that. I certainly didn't. If you find someone did, let me know and we'll both call them OOO's.

Short Memory?
 

I'll send you the lighter and arrange for Goodwill to come by and pick up the unis you won't be needing any more.

Nice try...no cigar. You are so willing to attempt to discredit others, you don't read what you copy and quote.

Lets examine the real facts:

You stated: "If you believe a coach is 'inciting' the crowd by yelling that a balk occured then you should retire or at least confine yourself to games where a tee and soft baseball are involved. You won't have to worry about coaches yelling "That was a balk." then."

I replied that I had done no such thing. In you attempt to prove me wrong you quoted me as having earlier written:

"Depends. Many conferences list "inciting/inciteful behavior" as grounds for an ejection. Example: a coach "yelling" from the dugout or a coach's box across the diamond his "opinion" of a call will not last long in most D-1 games in this area. He'll get one for free and an offer to come out and talk. If he declines and continues to be "loud" in his expression. He will leave."

Now then, put on your best reading glasses and find, for me, where I addressed anybody yelling "That was a balk", or in any general sense addressed a balk at all.

My post, as did other posts, (DavidB's for one) addressed the habit some coaches have of yelling across the diamond, in an inciting manner. I pointed out that conferences I have worked for called for an ejection if that behavior continued.

No mention of balk. I did not advocate ejecting anyone for yelling "That's a balk," Go ahead, read it again.

My point was, and is, if a coach continues to YELL across the diamond his disagreement with call, let's say a banger at first, he is exhibiting behavior that is inciting to the crowd and his team. If he continues doing so after being warned to stop, he will be ejected. This was specifically covered at an NCAA clinic and has been pretty well accepted by most umpires I know, even some from Illinois.

Does content matter? Of course it does. If the coach is yelling what a great ump and overall sweetheart I am, what the heck. But if he is one of those who likes to scream, "That's three you owe us!." He's not going to be around much longer.

The first time ANY coach yells anything similar to "Thats a Balk" he gets the look with the mask off. The second time he gets hold in so many words that there is only 2 people on the field that is going to use those words and he is not one of them. That might be inciting but I take this as serious arguing balls and strikes.

If the coach want to say some thing like "hey jerry can you watch this guys he isn't really pausing" and he says it in a respectful way and not trying to show me up, well then we don't have a problem.

The OP has been addressed numerous times. Some feel that a coach has no right to raise his voice while on a field. Others KNOW he does. Officiate however you need.

The content and timing of the coaches voice does matter. That is something I wrote long ago and I'm glad to see it is finally understood.

Others can insist that yelling an opinion is inciting, it isn't. The higher up you go the more you will know that this happens and such intensity is often ignored by worthy umpires. A stare in the coach's direction (mask on) is often all it takes to get the response we need. LaRussa tried it the other day and Drake handled it EXACTLY that way. A few days earlier, a controversial balk call was met with hoots and hollers from the offender's dugout. The ENTIRE crew ignored the yelling. In yesterday's Texas/NY game, Ron Washington was SCREAMING about a missed touch at first base. He was allowed to vent without being dumped for 'inciting', yelling, screaming, etc. MLB Quickpitch is on every morning and highlights what the best umpires do. Still, if you want to eject because a coach yells something that you can't handle otherwise, umpire away.

The OP does not warrant an ejection of the coach for yelling as he did. It's time to move on.