"Last time by" confusion

[jicecone]

Mike,

No, my "answer" is not in the book. The book merely says, "it is the umpires judgement...". My answer was an attempt to put some definition to what MY judgement would likely be, and if someone asked - that's what I'd suggest they use because it makes sense. Feel free to have your own judgment.

Never said anything was wrong with your answer, just that it was not in the book. I am also just trying to define “passing.”

However, you seem to be saying that if there's no play on the runner, then you would never ever consider this runner as having attempted to return to 2nd, and/or never ever consider this runner as having passed 3rd base (in reverse).

No, what I am saying is, that unless a runner is being played upon, there is no base path established (you know that), and the runner somewhat unlimited to where they can run. Considering that, his “attempt” to get to second is not defined until he actually touches it. Only at that time can the defense appeal that the runner missed 3rd base on his return.

According to BRD 2011, Section 4, page 14&15, “AO 1-4: J/R: An advance or return “by” a base does not include a complete bypass of such base (runner made no attempt to touch the base) [outside a body’s length (44)] in an attempt to reach a subsequent [or previous] base safely. (71:B1)

Last Time By, is a rule that enables the runner to correct a missed base infraction and supports the rule that the bases must be run in order while advancing or returning. However, that miss seems to be defined as “outside a body’s length”, for LTB to be applicable. After that an appeal is allowed for not running the bases in order. This is supported by the following:

2011 NFHS Rule Interpretations
SITUATION 15: R1 misses second base as he advances to third, but touches it as he safely returns to first base. The defense appeals his missing second as he advanced. RULING: The appeal is denied. The last time R1 went by second base, he properly touched the base and thus corrected the previous baserunning error. (8-2-6l)
SITUATION 16: As R1 attempts to score from second base, he misses third base by cutting well inside the infield. With the fly ball being caught, Brown attempts to return, touching third as he goes back to second base. RULING: Brown will be declared out on the appeal because a runner who misses a base in a manner to gain an unfair advantage is still vulnerable to appeal. (8-2-6l)
SITUATION 17: R1 is moving on the pitch as the batter hits a fly ball to left center field. R1 touches second base and heads for third when the ball is caught. R1 stops and returns to first base, missing second base. The ball is thrown into the dugout and R1 is awarded third. He touched first, second and third base on the award. The defense appeals his miss of second base as he attempted to return to first. RULING: R1’s actions are legal and the defensive appeal will be denied. R1 satisfied his baserunning obligations when he touched second on his last time by the base. (8-2-6l)
SITUATION 18: R1 leaves first base too soon on a caught fly ball. He touches second and nears third when his coach instructs him to return. R1 does so by running directly across the diamond toward first base. The ball gets by the first baseman, and R1 retouches first and makes it safely to second base. RULING: R1 would be declared out upon proper appeal by the defense as the principle of “Last Time By” would not apply. (8-2-6l)

If that's true, then if the runner thought it was going to be caught (as in the OP), ran back to third and OVER third, without touching, and then almost to 2nd - whereupon he sees the ball NOT caught... by your interp, this runner can simply run over the pitcher's mound to go home. Surely that's not correct.

I agree it is not, see above.

[UmpTTS43]

Some people just don't get it.