Fair or Foul
 

I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

There is a small portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory. If the ball should be batted and land and stop in that Bermuda Triangle it should be ruled fair. Will not see this happen very often, don't think I have ever.

If a ball should be batted and strike the runner in this area, it should be ruled foul.

Small but very meaningful.Obliviously :p With experience, Grasshopper ;), you shall. I have seen this several times.:):confused: A fair ball is ruled foul because the advancing runner is touched by it?

You are correct. It's just that a batted ball that hits a batter who is still in the box, is considered to be foul, even if it hits a foot in the fair portion of the box. This is by convention.

Your friend has confused things a bit.

Rita

Yes, there is a small portion of the batter's box in fair territory. Now, if you are calling the pitch (PU) or watching the offer of a swing (BU), neither of you are going to see the ball hit this tiny area. Now, if the coach comes out saying that the ball may have hit the fair area, you simply say, "Coach, in my opinion, the ball hit in the box, foul.". Remember, yours is the opinion that counts. Also, tell your "learned, experienced" umpire friend that he should spend more time watching the pitch!

A batted ball which hits the batter in the box is foul, even if it hits the batter in/over the "fair" portion of the batter's box.

You are correct, sir.

Batter, not runner.

You are always dead on... but not this time. I can't even follow what you're saying here. It is readily easy to see where a ball that has landed untouched. If this ball is still moving, then it doesn't matter at all whether the ball first hit in the Bermuda Triangle at all. He's obviously referring to a ball that has stopped there.

I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.

Both, actually. :)

If that was the joke, I missed it and I apologize.

But, the batter becomes a runner after hitting a (fair?) ball, so the statement was correct.

As long as we all know the rule / interp, I'll ignore the semantics (this time)

OBR was updated to include this in the rule.

Good to hear. There are quite a few of these small "changes" in the OBR but I haven't got a paper copy of the new.

Rita

Originally Posted by mbcrowder http://forum.officiating.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
I hate defending STB, but DG wrote "runner", not batter or batter-runner - it is to this STB was making his tongue in cheek remark.
No worries, Bob, just give yourself a 24 hour timeout. :D

Mistakes are tolerated. Multiple, intentional, negative comments (especially by or between parties with a "history"), not so much.

Ticky tack, batter is a batter-runner after batting the ball.

The incorrectly drawn box will either be redrawn correctly or conveniently disappear before the game even starts.

Ah the troll returned. Got it now.

And, in 1943 with what was considered a computer, he was right. As has been pointed out many times, he was not predicting beyond that.

Oh, it's you. Sorry I didn't recognize you at first. Here....join your previous incarnations on the ignore list. Say "hi" to STB for me.

"He's obviously referring to a ball that has stopped there." —mbcrowder

That's what I figured, too, but lands and settles are not synonymous, and since half the world seems to think that a ball that first hits on foul territory is immediately, automatically, and forever foul, I'm glad you pointed that out.

I've seen a ball settle in that little triangle several times in baseball. In fast-pitch softball, it's actually fairly common.

Beat you by about an hour. ;)

[QUOTE=greymule;754898In fast-pitch softball, it's actually fairly common.[/QUOTE]Does anyone, other than adults, play slow pitch softball anymore?

"Does anyone, other than adults, play slow pitch softball anymore?"

I think that some high schools actually do have SP programs, though not where I ever umpired.

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/a...01-690-010.jpg

Very small area but if the ball land in in the green area and comes to rest (Without touching the batter) it is fair. Doesn't happen often, which I have seen.

13% of the box is in fair territory, for those keeping score at home.

Good stat