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[MrUmpire]

The term, Rats as applied to some managers/coaches and players goes back decades. It started in pro ball with umpires who are not insecure.

It is not applied to all managers/coaches or players. It is not applied to those who lobby appropriately for their team or simply disagree with calls. It refers to the type of coacb/manager whose lobbying involves outright lying and cheating.

I have heard MLB, MiLB, D-1, D-111, JUCO, Varsity and LL umpire use the term appropriately.

If it offends the sensibilities of umpires who are fortunate enough to have never been exposed to a Rat, they should simply not adopt its use. No one will ever force them to say the "R" word.

[MikeStrybel]

As an umpire, I earned my thick skin long ago. I don't call players, coaches and administrators names and don't tolerate it in kind. I have not encountered a reason to hold a grudge against any of them in the many years I have worked ball games. I find it funny that anyone thinks that coaches should behave better than they do.

The rules of baseball at all levels allow us to penalize cheaters. Do your job.

The rules say nothing about lying. I can only think of a few things that a coach could misrepresent the truth about that concern me and most of these involve player safety. If his lie breaks a rule then I do my job.

Over the years, I have met several umpires who work or worked MLB. One regaled me with stories of Billy Martin and Earl Weaver that would make a nun cringe. Though he despised some of their behavior, he held the utmost respect for them. I have never forgotten that lesson. It is what I teach my son and his team and how I conduct myself with the coaches I encounter while umpiring.

I have encountered my share of coaches who behaved badly. The best umpires know how to focus and behave without being compelled to ridicule others and hold grudges. Some of the best taught me that and it has served me well.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

The term, Rats as applied to some managers/coaches and players goes back decades. It started in pro ball with umpires who are not insecure.

It is not applied to all managers/coaches or players. It is not applied to those who lobby appropriately for their team or simply disagree with calls. It refers to the type of coacb/manager whose lobbying involves outright lying and cheating.

I have heard MLB, MiLB, D-1, D-111, JUCO, Varsity and LL umpire use the term appropriately.

If it offends the sensibilities of umpires who are fortunate enough to have never been exposed to a Rat, they should simply not adopt its use. No one will ever force them to say the "R" word.

To me it is a title that's "earned" if you will. I've worked many games with coaches who, shall we say, lobbied assertively, but thankfully few who would qualify as rats.

[MikeStrybel]

While I can appreciate the need for some to disparage others who make them look bad, I am troubled by umpires who think it is okay to name call. If it is appropriate in your world to name call coaches, do you also do it to your partners when they aren't up to your standards? While no one is forcing you to use the term 'rat', I prefer to teach others the ways to improve the game and themselves. Kids learn from what they see and hear. So, too, do younger umpires. Name calling is unacceptable in most professions. Unless you are a comic or work for the WWE, it simply makes you look insecure.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

While I can appreciate the need for some to disparage others who make them look bad, I am troubled by umpires who think it is okay to name call. If it is appropriate in your world to name call coaches, do you also do it to your partners when they aren't up to your standards? While no one is forcing you to use the term 'rat', I prefer to teach others the ways to improve the game and themselves. Kids learn from what they see and hear. So, too, do younger umpires. Name calling is unacceptable in most professions. Unless you are a comic or work for the WWE, it simply makes you look insecure.

Do you ever get down from your high horse, or just have supplies airlifted in?

Do you REALLY believe the umpires here go out and call a coach or player a rat on the field? Really?

And do you REALLY believe in this mythical Republic of Respectistan, where we all get along, and it's about improving the game all the time? (Some of the time, sure it is, but not all.)

Our assignor's already told us in a meeting this year there are plenty of coaches, HS and below, in our area that while they might blow smoke up our skirts on the field, they will turn around and call him after the game and ask if we've ever seen a game before. Is that professional? Not so much.

I can tell you the number of times I've called a coach's boss, either a principal or a league official, and said anything like that: zero. That's basically the equivalent of what a coach does.

While I'm civil to every coach on every field I work, I also know at any moment, they'll turn on me, and I'm suddenly the no-good SOB that's trying to eff his team. While name-calling in a profession is unacceptable, it appears THAT crap is a-okay in baseball, at least until the point where you EJ them.

Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.

[DG]

I am sure I have met some coaches who would lie for their team's benefit, but most just see the play the way they would like it to have happened instead of the way it really did. And some just like to argue, and some do it for other reasons.

I had a coach approach me and "appear" to argue several years ago after I prevented his batter from going to 1b after getting hit by a pitch. It was the 2nd time in the same game for the same batter and he did not argue the first time. He says "I know he did not make an attempt but the player's Dad is in the stands and if he does not appear to argue he will hear from his Dad after the game." He was bobbing his head as if he was arguing the whole time. I told him I understood, we carried on a bit, and then stopped.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by DG

I am sure I have met some coaches who would lie for their team's benefit, but most just see the play the way they would like it to have happened instead of the way it really did. And some just like to argue, and some do it for other reasons.

I had a coach approach me and "appear" to argue several years ago after I prevented his batter from going to 1b after getting hit by a pitch. It was the 2nd time in the same game for the same batter and he did not argue the first time. He says "I know he did not make an attempt but the player's Dad is in the stands and if he does not appear to argue he will hear from his Dad after the game." He was bobbing his head as if he was arguing the whole time. I told him I understood, we carried on a bit, and then stopped.

DG,
I once had a coach come to me after the first game of a DH and tell me he wanted to be tossed right away. His team was clubbed in the first game and he was miserable. I truly felt bad for him as his team was awful and he wasn't. He told me that he wanted to go golfing or to the track and needed an exit. After some antimated finger pointing and showmanship I turned my back and tossed him. I saw him a week or two later and he said it was the best thing he could have done for himself and the team. Only we (and now you) know that he was told to hit the road after begging for it.

[MikeStrybel]

[QUOTE=HokieUmp;752605]Do you ever get down from your high horse, or just have supplies airlifted in?

Wow. When a guy condescends and whines here he is applauded. When I ask others to treat each other better it is called being on a high horse. (sigh)

I believe that some here pretend to be tough. They pose and offer advice that is bad for those still trying to learn our craft. I don't think they have the courage of their convictions but enjoy pretending that they do.

Long ago, I thought that it was us against them. I was trained well and taught to show them who's boss. After a while, I started watching the veterans who did things differently. They still carried a big stick but didn't brag about it. I was also impressed by their lack of interest in stirring the pot, be it with coaches or fellow umpires. I see no need to insult fellow umpires here, but some of you seem to enjoy it.

Do you have a point?

[QUOTE[I can tell you the number of times I've called a coach's boss, either a principal or a league official, and said anything like that: zero. That's basically the equivalent of what a coach does.

I wasn't aware that umpires should hold grudges that require such action. I may be pissed off at a coach who acts like a fool but I try to leave it on the field. I have seen plenty of coaches at stores, movie theaters or restaurants over the years. I prefer to have them think of me as professional rather than not.

[QUOTE]While I'm civil to every coach on every field I work, I also know at any moment, they'll turn on me, and I'm suddenly the no-good SOB that's trying to eff his team.[.QUOTE]

I would consider the reasons why they turn on you.

While name-calling in a profession is unacceptable, it appears THAT crap is a-okay in baseball, at least until the point where you EJ them.

See, that is where we actually agree. I have never once stated that a coach who acts like an a$$ should be ignored. If a coach behaves inappropriately, dump him. Do your job.

Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.

Have you ever coached a competitive team for a season?

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Wow. When a guy condescends and whines here he is applauded. When I ask others to treat each other better it is called being on a high horse. (sigh)

Perhaps its the condescending tone, and the insults thrown with it - as in, labeling fellow umpires as insecure. In fact, that's probably it.

I believe that some here pretend to be tough. They pose and offer advice that is bad for those still trying to learn our craft. I don't think they have the courage of their convictions but enjoy pretending that they do.

That's not what I asked.

Do you have a point?

Point being, we're expected to be professional on the field, and not stoop to their levels, and then after a game, expected to forget and move on. Meanwhile, rats scurry to a telephone to run down the umpires on the field, after saying to their faces 'good job.' Ragging to other members of their 'society' is one thing - what I mentioned is something else, and that makes it rat behavior. YMMV, apparently.

I would consider the reasons why they turn on you.

Well, it's when a call goes against them, usually. Or perhaps when their pitcher couldn't find the strike zone with a map and a flashlight. And that's evidently MY fault. And perhaps it's because coaches have this tendency to NOT put a previous game behind them, or because they have the 'us vs them' mentality for umpires, and are ready for a fight from the word go. Are you implying that doesn't happen where you are, ever?

Have you ever coached a competitive team for a season?

Sorry, no. I don't have the time for it, don't feel the need to live vicariously through kids, and I know the rules too well to be a coach.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Referring to guys like that as a rat on a message board helps me vent some steam, and keeps me from telling them on the field what I think of them. So it works.

Try this.

Get rid of your inhumane anger, find out why you have it in the first place and then you won't have to vent anything.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Do you ever get down from your high horse, or just have supplies airlifted in?

The funniest part of the perfect response.