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-   -   NFHS Baseball Test Part 1 (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/65437-nfhs-baseball-test-part-1-a.html)

Welpe Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 742951)
The rule book, actually.

10-1-4a "As an aid in deciding, the umpire may note whether the swing carried the barrel of the bat past the body of the batter, but [the] final decision is based on whether the batter actually struck at the ball."

For Fed, C is definitely the right answer.
Exactly my point, C is the correct answer so where did they get D may be used as "an aid" is not the same thing as "Base his decision as to whether the swing carried the barrel of the bat past the body of the batter."

MikeStrybel Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 742907)
Welpe,

Give that man a cigar!

That was, in fact, the "test correct" answer. :rolleyes:

On the field, of course, one would go with "C".

JM
John,
I had this question brought up at one of my clinics and again by ODJ. The correct answer is D. It is clearly stated as such in the 2011 Preseason Guide sent along with the Rule and Case books.

On page 5 of that supplement:

Quote:
The umpire's decision on a checked swing should be based entirely on his judgement as to whether or not the batter struck at the pitch.

Here are two helpful guidelines that may be helpful in determining if the batter swung: the barrel of the bat breaks the plane of the batter's front hip or the barrel of the bat breaks the plane of the front edge of the plate provided the batter is positioned in the center of the batter's box.
On the field, you would use both criteria. For less experienced umpires this will be easier to entertain. Some of us grew up with the 'front edge/broke his wrists' rules of thumb.

The NFHS wants us to read everything and they took that question straight from there. Illinois uses questions from the Michigan test currently but next year we will utilize a unique one.

The NCAA does the same thing. A number of questions came directly from the NCAA 2011 Baseball supplement.

I hope this helps clarify things.

Mike

Eastshire Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 742954)
Exactly my point, C is the correct answer so where did they get D may be used as "an aid" is not the same thing as "Base his decision as to whether the swing carried the barrel of the bat past the body of the batter."
Sorry, fixed my post but not fast enough. D is definitely correct as, by rule, you are to consider A.

Welpe Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:26pm
Mike, the funny thing is that the first sentence you quote from the supplement seems to match answer C perfectly.

Incidently, I had heard the "bat crosses over the plate" as criteria by the casual fan or coach but once I started umpiring, I was trained to NOT use those things as criteria but to simply judge, did the batter offer or did he not?

Admittedly, I did not realize the Fed had weakly codified the myth.

Welpe Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 742962)
Sorry, fixed my post but not fast enough. D is definitely correct as, by rule, you are to consider A.
I admit to being a little confused, I should have assumed you meant D but it fit my point better the other way. ;)

UmpJM Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 742962)
Sorry, fixed my post but not fast enough. D is definitely correct as, by rule, you are to consider A.
Eastshire,

Would you consider "A" determinate on whether the batter "offered" on a bunt? :rolleyes:

JM

Eastshire Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM) (Post 742973)
Eastshire,

Would you consider "A" determinate on whether the batter "offered" on a bunt? :rolleyes:

JM
Don't roll your eyes at me; I didn't write the rule. I agree that it's not a good way to look at it; but when you take a Fed rules test, you answer according to Fed rules.

Do I in practice care about the end of the barrel? No. That doesn't change how I answer the test question though.

MikeStrybel Wed Mar 23, 2011 02:46pm
Pull out the supplement and read what they write about a bunt attempt.

Quote:
Attempted bunts are treated differently. Merely holding the bat in the strike zone does not necessarily constitute a strike. The umpire must be convinced the batter was trying to touch the ball. A batter may actually attempt a bunt by letting the pitched ball strike the static bat, or he may actually attempt to touch the ball while retracting the bat (thus deadening the bunt.)
It is important to note that they say touch and not strike at the pitch when considering a bunt.

grunewar Wed Mar 23, 2011 04:43pm
Basketball Exam?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re (Post 742788)
I think they should just try to see if you know the rules, not spend the whole time seeing if they can trick you by word play.
Should? Could? Would? Shall? Might? May?

Blech!

Rich Wed Mar 23, 2011 04:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 743025)
Should? Could? Would? Shall? Might? May?

Blech!
My attitude is this: I don't care as long as I can score above the minimum required to stay at my current umpiring level. I have to send in 7 NFHS exams yearly and I just got Part II in the mail today, so I have yet another exam to complete and send in.

My curiosity was satisfied when the two questions Bob mentioned were posted. And as usual, I agree with Bob.

MrUmpire Wed Mar 23, 2011 04:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastshire (Post 742951)
The rule book, actually.

10-1-4a "As an aid in deciding, the umpire may note whether the swing carried the barrel of the bat past the body of the batter, but [the] final decision is based on whether the batter actually struck at the ball."
The important parts of 10-1-4a are in bold.

No change in rule or practice.

Rich Wed Mar 23, 2011 05:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 743031)
The important parts of 10-1-4a are in bold.

No change in rule or practice.
And clearly C is the correct answer regardless of the spin the IHSA wishes to put on it. The bat coming in front of the plate is a "may" and therefore A is too strongly worded. Not that I care. Even if I had this question and the NFHS marked it wrong, it just drops me from a 100 to a 99 and life goes on.

Simply The Best Wed Mar 23, 2011 05:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 (Post 742854)
In my opinion, I really like this test. It forces you to look up the rules, especially on the multiple choice ones. I saw several officials think they could just take the test and do well, and that's simply not the case...the test is supposed to get you to open the book which is probably a good thing. If you looked up each question in the book, the test wasn't that hard. Time consuming...yes. Worth the time, every second.
Yes, their is shallow genius behind the ingrained madness. :D

MikeStrybel Wed Mar 23, 2011 07:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 743036)
And clearly C is the correct answer regardless of the spin the IHSA wishes to put on it.
According to the 2011 NHFS Baseball supplement that is not the case. The IHSA does not publish that material, they just distribute it for us to read and learn. No spin required.

Enjoy your season.

UmpJM Wed Mar 23, 2011 07:47pm
Ultimately, it was the 10.1.3 case play language that persuaded me that "D" was the answer they were looking for on the test.

JM


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