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Thu Aug 31, 2000, 01:15pm
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We had the following discussion on other Boards I visited but I am still a little foggy (what else is new) so I will re-vist here.
No official Time Out has been given but batter isn't quite ready so umpire Puts his hand up to the pitcher indicating not to pitch yet. As soon as Batter is ready PU then points to the pitcher. My question? Is this an Implied Time Out? The reason I ask is I was doing a game this year and the PU had his hand up. F1 instead of throwing home made a pickoff attempt to get r1. I immediately called Time / No Play and said we had time out on the field and no play could be made until the PU put ball back in play. First off did I rule correctly? Second Does the umpire (either BU or PU) actually have to signal (hands above head) Time Out or is the hand gesture and implied Time Out? This could be meaningful when there is action on the bases / pickoff attempts etc. Thanks Pete Booth Is there a Spellcheck on this Baord? If so where is it? 
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Thu Aug 31, 2000, 02:03pm
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Pete,
Unless something unusual is happening, I recommend you do away with the, "hand up," gesture. It is unnecessary. By rule, the pitcher is required to wait until the batter is reasonably set in the box. By using your hand, you relieve the pitcher of this requirement. Because this hand up gesture is so popular, at younger levels (Little League) the pitchers never learn to be responsible with the ball. They need to understand that the missile in their hand can kill. They need to know that they are required to wait for the batter. By using the hand gesture very sparingly, you give the choice to pitch to the pitcher, where it belongs. By staying alert, you can head off any potential problems that may arise from a quick pitch. I called a quick pitch in a game this year. The responses from the coach and crowd was astounding to me. One person yelled, "You didn't have your hand up!" The coach argued, "He can throw as soon as the batter steps in the box!" This type of misinformation is out there because of youth league umpires who stick their hand up for every batter. For years these kids, coaches, and parents have gone through baseball without ever knowing that their pitcher was required to wait for the batter to be set. Despite my quick pitch call, and my polite explanations of the rules, those people left that game thinking I was an idiot. I paid the price for all those guys who stick their hand up and promote lazy, ignorant pitchers. All of that aside, if you do stick your hand up, that is a time out. You can't ask the pitcher to hold and wait all the while allowing the offense to run willy-nilly. That's not fair. What if a runner is steaing home? There you are with your hand up, how will the pitcher know he can throw to the plate? When that hand goes up it is not an implied time out, it IS a time out. Your hand is up. Nothing is implied there. Sincerely, Jim Porter
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Thu Aug 31, 2000, 02:44pm
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A related question: Someone has retrieved a foul ball or two, and is ready to throw them in to you or the catcher. Somewhere in the rules, it says that time is out when an umpire handles a live ball. In a live ball situation (maybe B1 has just walked), suppose a ball is coming in from the sidelines, you and maybe the catcher are looking over that way, the ball is thrown to you or to the catcher who hands it to you, and while this is going on, something fun happens on the field, maybe in the worst case a steal of home. Is time automatically out anywhere in this sequence of events, or should you bark out "time!" when it gets started?
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Thu Aug 31, 2000, 03:14pm
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quote: +++++++++++++ Pete: In the OBR the time out is not "implied." It's an official interpretation by Barney Deary of what is now the PBUC. That ruling was announced publicly in February, 1988! In November, 1989, the new boss of PBUC, Mike Fitzpatrick (still the boss) said once the umpire raises his hand in the "Do not pitch" signal, the ball remains dead until the umpire makes some "overt signal," such as a point or vebal command of "Play." For FED and NCAA, it's even easier: There is a specific rule to that very effect. You're a FED umpire, Pete. Get your book and read 5-1-1-h. In the NCAA, the rule is 6-5h. Now, Pete, once again this gives me a chance to help you become a better umpire. All the information I've given here is in Sedction 148 of the 2000 edition of the BRD. The all new, 2001 edition will be ready by February 1. Quit putting it off and get that book. There's no place else in baseball where you can get that much information for less than $20. ------------------ Papa C Editor, eUmpire
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Fri Sep 01, 2000, 01:02am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Porter:
[b]Pete, Unless something unusual is happening, I recommend you do away with the, "hand up," gesture. It is unnecessary. Hi Jim, I frequently use the "hand up" time out. I find it very necessary at all levels that I umpire (LL, High School, MSBL) Fact of the matter most baseball players (especially pitchers) don't know the rules. Nothing new. We umpires have known that for years. Why jeopardize the batter's well being just because the pitcher should know the "reasonably set" rule. I feel the hand up accomplishes other things besides protecting the batter. It notifies everyone time is out, and most importantly fosters game management. I use "hand up" all the time and I will continue to do so.
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Fri Sep 01, 2000, 01:43am
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Hi Jim,
I frequently use the "hand up" time out. I find it very necessary at all levels that I umpire (LL, High School, MSBL) Fact of the matter most baseball players (especially pitchers) don't know the rules. Nothing new. We umpires have known that for years. Why jeopardize the batter's well being just because the pitcher should know the "reasonably set" rule. I feel the hand up accomplishes other things besides protecting the batter. It notifies everyone time is out, and most importantly fosters game management. I use "hand up" all the time and I will continue to do so. Dave, I implore you to reconsider. The, "hand up," really isn't necessary. Perhaps you get the feeling that, if you don't put your hand up, the pitcher will think it is permission to fire away. In my experience, that hasn't been the case at all. Here are ways the hand up gesture can hurt you: 1. A play occurs on the bases. Now you have to explain why time was out. Folks will be unhappy with you. 2. If you fail to put your hand up once, and the pitcher delivers, you have to call a quick pitch. Now you have to explain why a pitcher balked because you didn't put your hand up. Folks will be unhappy with you. 3. Participants and spectators never learn the rules. By creating a "patch" to fix rules ignorance, you do little to mend the hole. A pitcher has a responsibility to know when he is allowed to deliver. You don't even allow pitchers to learn this. Instead, you take over the duty yourself. 4. The, "hand up," promotes a delay in the game. Batters want you to call time out incessantly. By giving it to them you allow them as much time as they need to get set. If you just let them do it on their own, they have a tendency to be ready a bit quicker. By the end of a game, at the very least 55 batters have come to the plate. Think about it, that's a lot of time outs. 5. Live bases are killed by the, "hand up." On 90 foot diamonds, the baselines are to stay active under a live ball as often as possible. When you use the, "hand up," you kill play. 6. "To allow the batter to get set," is not listed under OBR Rule 5.10. Rule 5.10 lists all the situations where an umpire has legal means to kill play. 7. If you allow the batter a time out to get set, then you must allow the defense time outs to do various things like toss the ball back to the pitcher. It's only fair. If one side gets a time out and is allowed to kill play, then the other side must be allowed to kill play too. 8. The top clinicians in the world teach their umpires to keep the ball alive as often as possible. You are not following this advice sticking your hand up all the time. Now, I can only think of one negative outcome from not using the, "hand up," gesture. 1. The pitcher may deliver a quick pitch. Well, Dave, this is handled by the rules. There is a penalty for a quick pitch, and a harsh one at that. It is a ball, balk with runners, and, if repeated, the pitcher is ejected. Ejected, Dave. That's a pretty harsh penalty. In my experience, in upper level baseball, you'll only ever see a pitcher quick pitch once. When he learns that he has balked and will be ejected next time, he will appreciate the awesome responsibility he has with a deadly missile in his hands. In lower levels, like Little League, Junior League, Senior League, it has been my experience that if a pitcher is prone to quick pitching, your hand up isn't going to make a bit of difference. If he isn't paying attention to whether the batter is set or not, what makes you think he'll pay attention to your hand? If you keep your hand down, stay alert, and deal as harshly with a quick pitcher as the rules require, you'll never have a problem. But forget to stick your hand up once when they expect it, and you'll be in boat loads of trouble. To me, the proper mechanic is clear. Use the hand up sparingly, if at all. Use it under abnormal circumstances. Keep the ball alive as much as possible, and require the pitchers in your games to know what their responsibility is under the rules. Thank you for your thoughts. Sincerely, Jim Porter
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Fri Sep 01, 2000, 05:09pm
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Jim P.
May I reprint what you just said onto eteam someday? Pete may have asked his question in referance to my post of 8/13 I don't know. I have another going now about calling time for sweeping the plate. My plan was to gather all the post and in my own way try to tell folkes how much time is wasted buy the ump calling "time" for HIS purposes. I took a stop watch to a game once and clocked a guy I had worked with before and out of nine innings he stoped the clock a total of 27 minutes. That was just for him or the batter or just time that didn't have to be called. As I have said before you talk much gooder than me ya wanna co-author? rex
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Fri Sep 01, 2000, 05:25pm
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quote: Rex, Anything I publish in a public forum is for public use. All I ask is that my name stays attached to the piece. Whatever you'd like to use it for, you are most welcome. The articles on the eUmpires web site, however, do not belong to me. I cannot give anyone permission to use those. But this is a public message board, so the thoughts I put down here belong to me. You are free to use them as you see fit. Sincerely, Jim Porter
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Sat Sep 02, 2000, 04:59pm
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quote: Hayes: You misunderstood rex. He said he was working on "another" issue, calling time when the umpire goes to dust the plate. Rex said he could do that project by himself, but he wanted to know if Jim would be "co-author." ------------------ Papa C Editor, eUmpire
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