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MikeStrybel Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:45pm

NCAA Rules Questions
 
Here are a couple to consider:

Two outs. B9 bats in place of the proper batter, B8, and grounds out to end the inning. The defensive team did not notice the improper batter and leaves the field.
a.The defensive team can appeal batting out-of-order from the previous half-inning if the next half-inning hasn't started.
b.B1 is the batter that should be leading off the next inning if there was no appeal.
c.B9 should be the next proper batter to lead off the next inning.
d.If B8 leads off the next inning, B8 is not batting out of order.

I know this should be easy, but I have thought about it too much!
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

R1, R3, one out. The batter's line drive is caught by F1. Both runners are moving on the pitch. F1 sees that R1 is way off first base and leisurely tosses the ball to F3 to double up R1 for the third out. While this is taking place, R3 has touched home plate prior to the third out at first base. The plate umpire waits until both teams have completely changed sides and awards the old offensive team a run.
a.The plate umpire awards the old offensive team a run and the inning continues.
b.The previous defensive team's coach can have a valid dead-ball appeal to negate the run.
c.There is no score on this play, the inning is over.
d.The previous defensive team cannot appeal because they did not do it before all infielders left the field and the catcher had left the dirt area around home plate.

Timing play? If the players all left the field there is no appeal.

Thanks for the advice.

Durham Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:59pm

In your first one B is correct, but I believe A is also correct as per the following:

SECTION 11. A batter is out when:
a. On appeal by the opposing team, the individual fails to bat in the proper
turn and another batter completes a time at bat in that place;
(1) The proper batter may replace the improper batter before the batter
becomes a runner or is put out, and any balls and strikes shall be
counted against the proper batter.
(2) If the improper batter becomes a base runner or is put out and an
appeal is made to the umpire-in-chief before a pitch to the next
batter of either team
, or a play or attempted play, the proper batter is
declared out and all runners return to bases held before action by the
improper batter. However, any advances by a runner(s), (e.g., stolen
base, balk, wild pitch, passed ball) while the improper batter is at bat
are legal. If the proper batter is declared out, the next person in the
lineup shall be the batter.

Food for thought.

In the second one A and D both seem correct. The run scores and the defense can not appeal. Probably D though.

dash_riprock Thu Feb 10, 2011 01:01pm

1. b

2. d Run scores on a time (not timing) play.

dash_riprock Thu Feb 10, 2011 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durham (Post 728639)
In your first one B is correct, but I believe A is also correct as per the following:

SECTION 11. A batter is out when:
a. On appeal by the opposing team, the individual fails to bat in the proper
turn and another batter completes a time at bat in that place;
(1) The proper batter may replace the improper batter before the batter
becomes a runner or is put out, and any balls and strikes shall be
counted against the proper batter.
(2) If the improper batter becomes a base runner or is put out and an
appeal is made to the umpire-in-chief before a pitch to the next
batter of either team
, or a play or attempted play, the proper batter is
declared out and all runners return to bases held before action by the
improper batter. However, any advances by a runner(s), (e.g., stolen
base, balk, wild pitch, passed ball) while the improper batter is at bat
are legal. If the proper batter is declared out, the next person in the
lineup shall be the batter.

Food for thought.

In the second one A and D both seem correct. The run scores and the defense can not appeal. Probably D though.

A can't be correct for the first one. The "next half inning" begins at the time of the 3rd out. The defense has not yet lost its right to appeal the BOO.

On the second one, A is not correct because the run is not an awarded run.

Just my take on it.

Durham Thu Feb 10, 2011 01:44pm

But can the defense appeal the BOO anytime before the next pitch of the game? Say during warmup pitches of the old offensive team?

dash_riprock Thu Feb 10, 2011 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durham (Post 728659)
But can the defense appeal the BOO anytime before the next pitch of the game? Say during warmup pitches of the old offensive team?

Yes. The "no appeal after the fielders have left the field, etc." rule applies only to missed base/retouch appeals.

Except FED.

dash_riprock Thu Feb 10, 2011 02:13pm

The second question involves lousy mechanics. PU should indicate the run scores when the 3rd out is called (which is going to be right after R3 touches the plate). Waiting 'til the teams change sides is not the right way to do it. It's a time play - you owe them an answer.

johnnyg08 Thu Feb 10, 2011 09:39pm

Timing play = no. TIME play = yes

justanotherblue Fri Feb 11, 2011 01:44pm

Once the defence leaves the field all appeals are null and void. A team can't appeal at that point. In the first question, B is the proper answer. B-1 directly follows B9 in the batting order.

In the second question, I have to go with D. All members of the defense left the playing field. They forfieted their right to appeal at that moment.

bob jenkins Fri Feb 11, 2011 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherblue (Post 728999)
Once the defence leaves the field all appeals are null and void. A team can't appeal at that point. In the first question, B is the proper answer. B-1 directly follows B9 in the batting order.

Reference, please (specifically for BOOO appeals)

justanotherblue Fri Feb 11, 2011 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 729015)
reference, please (specifically for booo appeals)

obr, 6.07b, 6.07c, 6.07d.2
mlbum 5.2
ncaa 7.3, 7.11.4, 7.11.4

bob jenkins Fri Feb 11, 2011 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherblue (Post 729043)
obr, 6.07b, 6.07c, 6.07d.2
mlbum 5.2
ncaa 7.3, 7.11.4, 7.11.4

Those NCAA references make no sense.

7-11-a(2) does say "...an appeal is made ... before a pitch to the next batter of either team or a play or attempted play..."

(emphasis added).

It doesn't say anything about "Once the defence leaves the field all appeals are null and void" and the part of the rule I highlighted pretty clearly indicates that an appeal can be made after the half-inning has otherwise ended.

Durham Fri Feb 11, 2011 05:12pm

I do enjoy talking rules. You learn something new every day. I have a question I'll start in a little bit.

Rich Ives Fri Feb 11, 2011 06:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherblue (Post 729043)
obr, 6.07b, 6.07c, 6.07d.2
mlbum 5.2
ncaa 7.3, 7.11.4, 7.11.4

MLBUM 5.2 is about "normal" 7.10 appeal plays. This isn't one. BOO is covered in MLBUM 3.2.

6.07(b) says hen an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play,

6.07(c) says When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and a pitch is made to the next batter of either team before an appeal is made, the improper batter thereby becomes the proper batter, and the results of his time at bat become legal.

Nowhere is there mention of the defenders leaving the field.

justanotherblue Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:34am

For the BOO appeal only, I've read and re-read, and I'll have to agree that leaving the field doesn't remove the potiential for an appeal by the wording of the rule. Another good quirk in the rules to remember.

Durham Sat Feb 12, 2011 05:38pm

Making mistakes is the best way to learn almost anything.

justanotherblue Sat Feb 12, 2011 05:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durham (Post 729381)
Making mistakes is the best way to learn almost anything.

Unlike many, I can man up when I'm wrong or made a mistake. I know I've read that before, but I, like many, had it as once you leave the field, you can't appeal. It's a easy change to add to my game.

Durham Sat Feb 12, 2011 07:12pm

One of the reasons that am lucky enough to do what I do is that I have made more mistakes than most and I have learned from them and from the mistakes of others as well. Some people often want to judge others by their mistakes. I just want to grow and learn from them. :0)

yawetag Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durham (Post 729381)
Making mistakes is the best way to learn almost anything.

Exception: skydiving

justanotherblue Wed Feb 16, 2011 03:45pm

FWIW...in Fed, it is when all defensive players leave the field. 7-1-2 Penalties 2. I still should have remembered/known the difference though. Damn.

MrUmpire Wed Feb 16, 2011 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by yawetag (Post 729472)
Exception: skydiving

And disarming explosives.

UMP25 Sun Feb 20, 2011 03:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherblue (Post 729154)
For the BOO appeal only, I've read and re-read, and I'll have to agree that leaving the field doesn't remove the potiential for an appeal by the wording of the rule. Another good quirk in the rules to remember.

It's not so much a quirk in NCAA rules as it's an ambiguity. Where NCAA rules are unclear or not specific, they defer to OBR. Under OBR's official interpretation, for BOO that ends an inning, an appeal must be done before the first pitch to the opposing team.

This NCAA test question had two possible correct answers. Many people I know thought they answered it correctly but got the question wrong on their exams.


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