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-   -   No thread about Bob Davidson ejecting a fan? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/59046-no-thread-about-bob-davidson-ejecting-fan.html)

Kevin Finnerty Sat Sep 11, 2010 09:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 691813)
My point about guys like Davidson is that he embarrasses all of us with his antics. It is the knuckleheaded umpires like him who get all of the attention. I have no respect for guys like him, always looking for ways to get attention-good grief, buy a Mach 5 and shave, Bob!
Your point has been well established: You are BIASED against Bob Davidson, and no matter what he does, even if it's right, you will rip him. That's what biased people like you do. That's okay, because bias, prejudice, bigotry--whatever narrow-minded practice you choose--are allowed in a free society. Expressing views that result from such bias is also allowed on many fronts, including this one.

However, on most issues, when biased people like you encounter unbiased, objective, mature, fair-minded people, there are going to be obvious problems. Being a biased person, you should have plenty of experience with that. I'm surprised that you are reacting so harshly.

[For the record, I'm usually one of old Bob's critics, but this time, he stepped up and showed what any courageous, conscious umpire should do when a slur is hurled and no policeman or security person does anything about it: you order the incompetent policeman to do what he's supposed to do. I've supervised incompetent police in everyday life on a few occasions, and I certainly will in such an instance in a baseball setting.]

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 09:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 691852)
Somehow you missed this little blurb at the end of the story...

"Major League Baseball reviewed what happened and determined the umpire followed the proper protocol by first alerting a stadium usher. A spokesperson said it is “not unprecedented” for an umpire to order a fan ejection.".
Actually, you are correct...I was readin it on my phone and I did miss the bottom part. If this is not unprecedented, then I would like to know what the precedent(s) is(are). I have never seen or heard of anything like this in a Major League game-ever.

None of us know what was said. The drunken jerk fan says he said that obnoxious but rather mild comment. What if he yelled: Molina, I think you are effeminate? Should that garner the heave ho by an umpire? Molina, I think there are others who appear to be a tad more masculine that you. What if he wouldhave made a similar silly/obnoxious remark implying that Molina has sex with tons of women, instead of men?

It is completely not believable that Molina was going to try to find a way into the crowd...and that he could have actually gotten into the crowd(this was not aq left fielder in Fenway or Chavez Ravine) without being stopped over this. If he did, then he would be ejected and THAT would be Davidson's job.

MrUmpire Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 691852)
Somehow you missed this little blurb at the end of the story...

"Major League Baseball reviewed what happened and determined the umpire followed the proper protocol by first alerting a stadium usher. A spokesperson said it is “not unprecedented” for an umpire to order a fan ejection.".
1. Bold part is most important.
2. Talk about being "damned with faint praise."
3. Precedent only means it has happened before, not that it was correct.
3. Davidson has already been "talked to."
4. He won't do it again.

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 691866)
Your point has been well established: You are BIASED against Bob Davidson, and no matter what he does, even if it's right, you will rip him. That's what biased people like you do. That's okay, because bias, prejudice, bigotry--whatever narrow-minded practice you choose--are allowed in a free society. Expressing views that result from such bias is also allowed on many fronts, including this one.

However, on most issues, when biased people like you encounter unbiased, objective, mature, fair-minded people, there are going to be obvious problems. Being a biased person, you should have plenty of experience with that. I'm surprised that you are reacting so harshly.

[For the record, I'm usually one of old Bob's critics, but this time, he stepped up and showed what any courageous, conscious umpire should do when a slur is hurled and no policeman or security person does anything about it: you order the incompetent policeman to do what he's supposed to do. I've supervised incompetent police in everyday life on a few occasions, and I certainly will in such an instance in a baseball setting.]
The arrogance here is astonishing.

Of COURSE I am biased! So are you, so is everyone else.

You are just too full of yourself to realize.

Kevin Finnerty Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:08am
No, I am not, nor is everyone biased.

Part of your being biased and narrow-minded is you have developed an inability to discern fair-mindedness in others.

JRutledge Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 691878)
The arrogance here is astonishing.

Of COURSE I am biased! So are you, so is everyone else.

You are just too full of yourself to realize.
Did you really say this? You are arguing that a policy was not followed but it was revealed that the policy from MLB was followed and they seemed to not have a problem with the situation. Now if that is not arrogance I do not know what is. Unless you work for MLB or you decide the procedures, your opinion on this is way off and wrong. And I never completely dismissed your opinion, but you are not the person that is being asked to follow this or any procedure. So your opinion only means so much and those in charge apparently think he did the right thing.

That is why we work for people and they set policy that we are to follow. That is why we cannot set standards for things we have never personally experienced. And unless you have been an MLB umpire (I know I have not) then what they expect of their umpires is not based on your personal feelings.

Peace

asdf Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 691876)
1. Bold part is most important.
2. Talk about being "damned with faint praise."
3. Precedent only means it has happened before, not that it was correct.
3. Davidson has already been "talked to."
4. He won't do it again.

Precedent was the cause for the protocol to be established....

He then followed established protcol....

It it happens again, he'll do it again. Exactly the same way.

tballump Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 691813)
You are basing your opinion of me on....well, not on anything I have said or implied. If you think I have a too high opition of myself as an umpire, you have just made that up. I have not once said or implied anything like that. I am an above average High School umpire who has tries to dress and act professionally and have a good knowledge of the rules. I have worked with lots of guys a lot better than me and I have always tried to learn from them.

My point about guys like Davidson is that he embarrasses all of us with his antics. It is the knuckleheaded umpires like him who get all of the attention. I have no respect for guys like him, always looking for ways to get attention-good grief, buy a Mach 5 and shave, Bob!

As for serving as a fill-in umpire in the MiLB in 2012...no way. My job and my lower back would make that impossible.

Unions think they should get to make the rules and we should all just obey their sets of standards without question. If the MiLB umpires vow to do no other work for any other employer during their strike, I could see honoring their strike. If they, however, work any job anywhere then, the games are fair game. If an MiLB guy gets a job at a gas station, then someone cannot...but, then he wants to demand that no one go work the baseball games that he refused to work? Union members live in a dreamland.
If your job and lower back make that impossible at the MiLB level, then why don't you hang it up. You owe it to the HS kids to get out also.

So, this measure with MiLB was strickly a FYMiLBU. You could have cared less about working the games, but you did it out of spite. Pity, since you have a "full" schedule anyway, that you did this to spite the little MiLB guy. Let those guys who don't have a full schedule of games like the volunteer Little League guys that only work a game or two a week go try if that is your point, although I do not condone them working either. Let them go, you do not need to go with your full schedule. Don't do the other guys dirty work for them. Pitiful, the reason why you did it. Just to get even.
And pity the people that work 3 part time jobs in this country just to make ends meet, and 1 of the part time jobs just happen to be a union job and they are out on strike. This means that they are fair game for people who already have 40 hour jobs and just want to step over and make some quick cash at the strikers part time union job during the strike, since the strikers are working 2 other part time jobs to make ends meet. This is done just to spite them and get even with them for having a part time union job. Pitiful.

Adam Sat Sep 11, 2010 01:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 691852)
Somehow you missed this little blurb at the end of the story...

"Major League Baseball reviewed what happened and determined the umpire followed the proper protocol by first alerting a stadium usher. A spokesperson said it is “not unprecedented” for an umpire to order a fan ejection.".
Yep, even if he fights and gets the citation revoked, MLB has stated he should have been tossed.

LeeBallanfant Sat Sep 11, 2010 02:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 691892)
Precedent was the cause for the protocol to be established....

He then followed established protcol....

It it happens again, he'll do it again. Exactly the same way.
A number of years ago I was at the Olympic Stadium and Mark Hirschbeck ejected a fan for unknown reasons. Since the Mets were in town, I would assume it was a Mets fan as I do not believe Hirschbeck understood French.

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 02:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tballump (Post 691895)
If your job and lower back make that impossible at the MiLB level, then why don't you hang it up. You owe it to the HS kids to get out also.

So, this measure with MiLB was strickly a FYMiLBU. You could have cared less about working the games, but you did it out of spite. Pity, since you are have a "full" schedule anyway, that you did this to spite the little MiLB guy. Let those guys who don't have a full schedule of games like the volunteer Little League guys that only work a game or two a week go try if that is your point, although I do not condone them working either. Let them go, you do not need to go with your full schedule. Don't do the other guys dirty work for them. Pitiful, the reason why you did it. Just to get even.
To your first point, I have not worked any HS games for the past couple of years(other than a few times as a last minute fill in) Another massive assumption made here(that I would work games when not physically able to do so)

This is the typical union mindset. No criticism for the hypocrisy of the MiLB umpires. None. The guys in the MiLB said no to the game first. They do not own those assignements. Yet, they were all too willing to knock guys out of amateur games. The Union Mindset is that Union Member can walk away from a job, anyone who goes to do that job is a scabby scumbag AND the Union Member is also allowed to work any job he wants and should not be subject to any scrutiny or criticism.

I did not do it out of spite. I worked the first one because a friend asked me the day of the game to fill in and I thought it would be fun. I was asked back several times because I did a good enough job for them to use me some more.

Again, one of you Union Apologists quote things that I did not say. When did I say I had a "full" schedule? I had as many games as I liked to work...did this for fun.

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 03:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 691886)
No, I am not, nor is everyone biased.

Part of your being biased and narrow-minded is you have developed an inability to discern fair-mindedness in others.
Kevin, you are either stupid, arrogant or lying. Take your pick. Every human being has biases in every situation....except for Kevin Finnerty and Keith Olbermann, I guess.

tballump Sat Sep 11, 2010 03:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn (Post 691908)
To your first point, I have not worked any HS games for the past couple of years(other than a few times as a last minute fill in) Another massive assumption made here(that I would work games when not physically able to do so)

This is the typical union mindset. No criticism for the hypocrisy of the MiLB umpires. None. The guys in the MiLB said no to the game first. They do not own those assignements. Yet, they were all too willing to knock guys out of amateur games. The Union Mindset is that Union Member can walk away from a job, anyone who goes to do that job is a scabby scumbag AND the Union Member is also allowed to work any job he wants and should not be subject to any scrutiny or criticism.

I did not do it out of spite. I worked the first one because a friend asked me the day of the game to fill in and I thought it would be fun. I was asked back several times because I did a good enough job for them to use me some more.

Again, one of you Union Apologists quote things that I did not say. When did I say I had a "full" schedule? I had as many games as I liked to work...did this for fun.
Plate or bases for these games. Don't tell me you are one of those guys who get the plum games on the bases and have for years because your knees or back are sore and cannot work the plate, mainly because you are getting yelled at by the coaches for your plate work more than your base work, and you don't want to get downgraded, and let the other guy take the heat. I am not accusing. Just asking.

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 04:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tballump (Post 691915)
Plate or bases for these games. Don't tell me you are one of those guys who get the plum games on the bases and have for years because your knees or back are sore and cannot work the plate, mainly because you are getting yelled at by the coaches for your plate work more than your base work, and you don't want to get downgraded, and let the other guy take the heat. I am not accusing. Just asking.
For the MiLB games, I think I worked 2 plates and 4 bases.
Nope, I have always worked about half and half. If given a choice, I would always rather do the plate. The way my back has gotten, the bases are harder than the plate. And no, to answer your next question...I do not loaf in my coverages. I may not be as fast as I once was but, I have never missed a coverage because of my body. I have missed plenty over the years because I screwed up...never because of a physical reason.
I have gone on hiatus because of the pain, not the lack of movement. It looks like back surgery is inevitable.

MrUmpire Sat Sep 11, 2010 06:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf (Post 691892)
Precedent was the cause for the protocol to be established....

He then followed established protcol....

It it happens again, he'll do it again. Exactly the same way.
1. The precedent cited by MLB did not set or even utilize the same protocol, thus, you are incorrect. Protocol was previously established by policy. Davidson followed part of it.

2. He may do it again, there no telling with Davidson, however it was strongly suggested that he not.

MrUmpire Sat Sep 11, 2010 06:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 691901)
Yep, even if he fights and gets the citation revoked, MLB has stated he should have been tossed.
No they didn't. They didn't even address the reason. They half-heartedly addressed the procedure.

KJUmp Sat Sep 11, 2010 06:45pm
And the source of all this information regarding MLB's stand on Davidson's actions and what they told Davidson is....???????
The quotes are attributable to whom?
Not questioning that the quotes aren't accurate, just curious as to the source.

Adam Sat Sep 11, 2010 09:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 691927)
1. The precedent cited by MLB did not set or even utilize the same protocol, thus, you are incorrect. Protocol was previously established by policy. Davidson followed part of it.

2. He may do it again, there no telling with Davidson, however it was strongly suggested that he not.
By whom? Do you have a link?

tballump Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:21pm
Well, I will just throw this out there a year early. Hopefully it will not happen ever again, but there is always the possibility of another strike before the 2012 season. If it comes to that again, hopefully nobody will work those games this time and let the umpires and management come to an agreement.

Many in management and administrators think we are just a necessary evil and any warm body off the street can efficiently do the job at both the amateur and MiLB level. Many amateur umpires work very hard, yet do not get the respect they deserve, for their umpiring abilities. Let them take unemployed people off the street to umpire the games the next time a strike happens. Or, at best, let them take a couple of first year umpires who have just gone to a few first year umpire meetings and let them have at it, since management thinks it takes nothing to umpire. Let them figure out they should respect umpires at all levels, both amateur and professional.

And yes JWW, I will readily acknowledge there were former MiLB guys who crossed the line also.

jwwashburn Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tballump (Post 691951)
Well, I will just throw this out there a year early. Hopefully it will not happen ever again, but there is always the possibility of another strike before the 2012 season. If it comes to that again, hopefully nobody will work those games this time and let the umpires and management come to an agreement.

Many in management and administrators think we are just a necessary evil and any warm body off the street can efficiently do the job at both the amateur and MiLB level. Many amateur umpires work very hard, yet do not get the respect they deserve, for their umpiring abilities. Let them take unemployed people off the street to umpire the games the next time a strike happens. Or, at best, let them take a couple of first year umpires who have just gone to a few first year umpire meetings and let them have at it, since management thinks it takes nothing to umpire. Let them figure out they should respect umpires at all levels, both amateur and professional.

And yes JWW, I will readily acknowledge there were former MiLB guys who crossed the line also.
I was not talking about former guys that crossed the line. I was talking about AMLU guys who went and worked other baseball games thus knocking guys out of their assignments. But, what about the striking MiLB guy that takes a warehouse job? That knocks someone else out, also.

If they choose to walk away from their jobs-I say go for it, if they can get more money and benefits, then good for them. But, they are not the good guys just because they proclaim that they are. They are just guys that want more money. The owners of these teams are not bad guys because the AMLU says they are. The owners are guys that do not want to spend more money...they want to spend less money. That is how you run a successful business.

The guys know the pay and tough schedule before they signed up. If they thought the pay was too low, go do something else or strike and see if you can win. But, stop the garbage that anyone owes them anything just because they took a job they think should pay them more.

bob jenkins Sun Sep 12, 2010 07:07am
This thread has pretty clearly run its course.


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