OBR youth Leagues - Need a case Book

[PeteBooth]

I know some umpires refer to FED rules as FEDlandia or some other colorful metaphors, but at least FED has a CASE book that explains most rulings whether you agree with them or not.

For the most part whenever we get into OBR discussions like the one's we are having recently, the answers are broken down into:

1. Kids who shave

2. Kids that don't shave

Therefore, IMO youth leagues that use OBR should have their own case-book explaining the application of the rules and how it fits THEIR game. Now LL does have a book called the "Right Call" but has not been updated recently.

In OBR we have the experts: JEA, J/R the PBUC and the new WUA and even among the experts there are disagreements. Also, the authoritative opinions expressed by the aforementioned are not for kids that don't shave.

We just finished a thread on this holding the bat over home -plate and while it is a myth, in FED this play is SPELLED out.

It's no wonder youth leagues complain about umpires and their rulings. First off you have untrained umpires trying to apply concepts that were written for the BIG Boys to a 9/10 or 11/12 yr. old game. If there was a Case - Book explaining these situations ala FED, it would make life easier for the novice umpire which one most often gets in the "rug-rat" divisions of youth baseball.

The other recent thread concerned hand-clapping, etc. Again nothing specific in the OBR rule-book on this. The consensus (which BTW I agree with) was it depends upon the ages of the player. College and above leave it alone as it will take care of itself.

Therefore, to me FED should be the rules of choice for amateur athletics that do not want to take the time to have a Case-book explaining THEIR game.

Another one that comes to mind is umpire mistakes or reversal of calls. In OBR for the most part it's tough luck , however, FED has a specific rule addressing this issue that the UIC shall rectify any call that was reversed put either team at a disadvantage.

Therefore, for the most part in discussion various issues using OBR, there are generally 2 answers depending upon the age of the players involved, which makes things difficult when dealing with untrained or the novice umpire. Simplify life and have a Case-book that fits YOUR game.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Pete:

While I will agree that FED has the best official casebook in baseball, they still do not have the best rule book, even for "kids that(sic) don't shave." We need go no farther to see that then appeals for missed bases.

Perfect solution: FED should, as some youth leagues have, notably PONY, simply take OBR, attach an addendum of desired safety rules and participation rules and write a casebook for their purposes on the result.

Voila, the best of both worlds.

GB

[jicecone]

If you could convince me that LL cares more about the game and its participants than the bucks they take in, then mabey you could convince someone to bring LL rule books in line with the game played by youth, and even prepare a case book. ?????

I write this based upon my experiences with LL, as a Local and District Administrator, Organization Officer, Coach and Parent. It may sound harsh but I can only relate to the experience's I had.

Regardless, I still believe it is good for those that do participate because it if nothing else, it gives them something to do.

[Manny A]

Pete said, "Now LL does have a book called the 'Right Call' but has not been updated recently."

That's not entirely accurate, Pete. The "Right Call" was updated just last year, to take into account a few recent changes, although for the life of me I can't remember what those changes were. They were very subtle, I guess.

The problem with the "Right Call" is that it doesn't go deep enough on some of those sticky issues, or even bother to mention others. The best publication I've ever seen from LL HQ is the "Rules Instruction Manual" I've often mentioned in other forums. It's the manual that umpire school instructors are supposed to use when they talk about the rules in regional and national clinics/schools. But unless you actually attend a regional/national clinic (and assuming the instructors use the manual), you'll never know what's in there. They are not free for general use.

The other manual that's not too bad is the blue-covered "Umpire Clinic Manual" that is given out during state and higher clinics. That's the one that speaks of correcting a botched Infield Fly call. I've got a few copies from the three or four weekend clinics I've attended and that Andy Konyar was the primary instructor. The only drawback with that manual is that it states it is not authoritative and should not be used as a substitute for the rulebook and casebook.

I've never done FED so I can't speak for it, but I'm curious to know why there's such an extensive casebook for FED rules. Was there a rash of protests in high school games in the past? Did high school managers/coaches/players try everything under the sun to win games, and umpires needed specific written guidance to steer the culprits in the right direction? Why is FED so much "better" than any other organization?

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Manny A

I've never done FED so I can't speak for it, but I'm curious to know why there's such an extensive casebook for FED rules. Was there a rash of protests in high school games in the past? Did high school managers/coaches/players try everything under the sun to win games, and umpires needed specific written guidance to steer the culprits in the right direction? Why is FED so much "better" than any other organization?

Manny the FED case book is like J/R or the PBUC to OBR. The FED case book explains the rulings via case plays. I don't think it has anything to do with a rash of protests, because unlike LL basically all decisions (excluding the year end sectionals) are resolved on the field one way or another or unless a specific state has their own Protest procedures.

Let's take a typical question that we get on various Forums. B1 beats the throw to F3 but does not touch the base. What's the call?

In OBR since it is NOT clearly stated, becomes a valid question. In OBR the umpire should signal safe and the defense must appeal, however, in addition the umpire must determine whether the action is relaxed / unrelaxed. Those terms are not in the book. As mentioned above, one needs supplemental info namely J/R and the PBUC. I'll keep the JEA out of this discussion since that book is difficult to get and not everyone has a copy.

For all practical purposes, in the real world once the umpire signals safe, a team will not appeal, so whether B1 misses the base or not becomes moot.


In FED it's a no brainer. They have a case Play explaining the ruling. Now one might not like the ruling, but the point is FED explains it. In FED as long as F3 has the ball and touches the bag, B1 is out - No appeal required.

If your a first year umpire reading OBR, the book doesn't clearly tell you what to do on this play.

Another one that comes to mind is Verbal Interference / Obstruction. Again in OBR this is vague. In fact according to J/R there is no such animal as verbal interference / obstruction. In OBR, we would most likely call it in youth leagues, and use discretion for kids who shave.

In FED, not only is verbal interfernce / obstruction defined, there is also a case play to explain it.

IMO, LL should do the same in their book the "Right Call" The Right Call is accessible to everyone, therefore, LL should take the time and update it to fit their game.

The umpires manual you speak of is in a way like the JEA. It's not accessible to everyone. Also, I wouldn't call FED better than any other organization. I was talking about their rules and Case Book only.

Even for those who don't like FED, IMO they admit that FED's Case Book is unprecedented in amateur sports.

Pete Booth

[greymule]

Fed's case book does indeed provide a lot of situations. I wish OBR was as thorough as Fed, or even as ASA.

However, many of Fed's examples involve tobacco-like substances, conduct in case of a fight, removal of a helmet during a live ball, unsafe field conditions, intentional/unintentional throwing of bats, designated media areas, offical stamps on equipment, and other matters that have "potential litigation" written all over them. Many other of their "case plays" involve things like when to charge conferences, what colors can be worn for undershirts, what to do if a coach is using a video recorder, what objects the 3B coach can hold in the box, and how much closed-cell, slow-recovery rubber must pad a cast. In other words, the Fed case book expends a lot of ink on things that have nothing to do with actual "what if" plays.

I'm not saying their examples aren't necessary for an organization that covers school ball, but reading straight through their case book can be deadly boring. On the other hand, the PBUC and Baseball Rules Differences are full of valuable information on how to rule on actual plays. Pick a page at random and you either learn something new or have something important reinforced. My J/R is on order, and I'm sure it's the same way.

[MAC]

Now if those rebel's in Mass. and R.I. would accept the Fed oh what a wonderful world it would be ! it's a tad more like NCAA, but others will disagree.